Politics

[Evil Chris]

Anyone here follow politics?
I know quite a bit about my own country's political history and current affairs, as well as the US and some about Europe and the UK.

I find it interesting. Anyone else share this interest?

[war_ner]

I do enjoy political discussions. But most on the historical aspect of it.. :)

[Stephane76]

I used to when i was back home, till i reaslised how corrupted it was...

[Evil Chris]

Originally posted by Stephane76
I used to when i was back home, till i reaslised how corrupted it was... Do you really think it's as corrupt as all that? For some countries for sure but for the most part especially in the Western countries, I'm pretty sure that politicians are no more corrupt than the citizens themselves when it comes to income etc..

[Stephane76]

I really do think it is, especially in europe and in the US

[Ronaldo]

Originally posted by Evil Chris
Do you really think it's as corrupt as all that? For some countries for sure but for the most part especially in the Western countries, I'm pretty sure that politicians are no more corrupt than the citizens themselves when it comes to income etc..
Except that the average citizen generally doesn't have access to the billions of dollars of taxpayer money.

Desire is one thing. Opportunity is quite another.

[Evil Chris]

At the risk of turning this into a discussion about corruption, I'd ask if anyone here has ever declared less than they actually earned in a year, or if you've ever paid for a product or service "under the table" without paying taxes, or for that matter accepted such payment.

I could go on and on. What kind of corruption is that? :)

[Ronaldo]

Not declaring taxes on say $3000 where at worst you'd pay $1500 in taxes is a LITTLE different than say, hmmm, spending $3000 on a friday afternoon lunch at the taxpayer's expense...on a regular basis. One is a criminal offense, one is an accepted crime.

Which is my point.

You're correct in that the motive/desire may be the same in everyone, but the opportunity to "Steal" from the taxpayers, is more accessible to some.

That opportunity leads some from $1500 tax discrepancies, to discrepancies in the ten's of thousands of dollars.

[Ronaldo]

On another note, if I outright lie to my bosses face, I'm guessing I wouldn't be around long. Assuming that I was given another chance, a second lie would surely mean my job.

Stealing would be immediate termination and criminal charges.

Lying and stealing (or, misusing funds shall we say) is simply becoming more and more accepted by the employers of our politicians. Who's gonna get elected? Whoever's gonna steal less money or told the least amount of lies...during the campaign.

If they're caught stealing and lying, what can we do? Wait until THEY call another election and HOPE to get them out. In the case of the U.S....wait until the next scheduled election in 3 YEARS and hope to get them out. Till then, it's business as usual.

[war_ner]

Corruption can be compared to a rotten tomato. You'll leave a single piece today and it will bring the damage up to the last one after a week.

[war_ner]

i enjoy participating talks about politics also however sometimes it's very tiring..

some people are illogical!!

[TheLegacy]

politicians are basically lawyers trying to figure out how best to get the retirement package while getting favors filled to those who sponsored their campaign to begin with. The true honest politicians rarely make it to the top - the whole government needs a major overhaul.

[Evil Chris]

Ron, you are forever the pessimist. :)
What you forget is that 100% of the collective public has lied, cheated, or stolen themselves from the goverment in one way or another. Add it all up and you have a problem which is much more severe than a $3000 Friday afternoon lunch at the Elephant & Castle on Rideau St. in Ottawa.

[Ronaldo]

Originally posted by Evil Chris
Ron, you are forever the pessimist. :)

Uh, isn't it YOU that's saying 100% of the population are already thieves?

Is that an OPTIMISTIC view?

[Evil Chris]

Originally posted by Ronaldo
Uh, isn't it YOU that's saying 100% of the population are already thieves?

Is that an OPTIMISTIC view? I'd say more realistic.
Have you ever paid cash for a service or product for the purpose of not paying tax?

[Quagmire]

Originally posted by Evil Chris
I'd say more realistic.
Have you ever paid cash for a service or product for the purpose of not paying tax?
The problem here is that its to a point where the taxes are obscene and the money is being wasted. The problem isn't being fixed and there is no light at the end of the tunnel.

Who is the crook - the person keeping their hard earned money to buy things for themselves or family, or the politician throwing money at special interest groups to buy votes and pissing it away on $3000 dinners?

We elect people to office who are no less corrupt than the rest of the population and expect miracles. But at the same time as a general population without a revolution we have no way of changing the current corrupt system. The politicians aren't going to do it, its not in THEIR best interests to change how things work.

[Ronaldo]

Originally posted by Quagmire
The problem here is that its to a point where the taxes are obscene and the money is being wasted. The problem isn't being fixed and there is no light at the end of the tunnel.

Who is the crook - the person keeping their hard earned money to buy things for themselves or family, or the politician throwing money at special interest groups to buy votes and pissing it away on $3000 dinners?

We elect people to office who are no less corrupt than the rest of the population and expect miracles. But at the same time as a general population without a revolution we have no way of changing the current corrupt system. The politicians aren't going to do it, its not in THEIR best interests to change how things work.
Great post.

Who has created the "Underground" economy Chris? People fed up at paying 50% of their income to taxes that go to people in low income housing with brand new cars and who take two vacations each year. There is NO incentive to work hard anymore, because our government will take care of you. With MY money.

Now, how many people would be thrilled with a flat tax of 20-25%? I for one. But why would the government ever go that way, when they can promise 1% off a National Sales Tax and basically get elected on that platform alone? The Canadian people are the governments cash cow, plain and simple. A never ending trough of money that they only have to answer to when they're in a position to get re-elected. Hence, never.

I see government waste on a daily basis. If these things happened in the private sector, someone would be held accountable. When your employer is JUST the taxpayer, it doesn't matter. Those same people that employ you, and would like to revolt against the system, are bound by the tax laws that their EMPLOYEES make.

Here's two examples of government waste that piss me off to no end.

1. A few years ago I was a private contractor for Canada Post. LOVED the job, but the money was absolute shit-after expenses like maintaining your vehicle etc.

I was standing outside the Xamo office one day and a buddy was driving by so he stopped and chatted for a bit. He told me he had just come back from Canadian Tire (in his brand new cargo van btw) and purchased 16 tires, oil, paper and a shitload of other things for his department. Why? It was that time of year again. Year end. Typical government philosophy...spend it or lose it.

Being a private contractor and driving an old piece of shit cargo van, and being able to afford new tires MAYBE twice a year and making shit money, it burned my ass to see our government, spending MY money and paying this guy $18 an hour to do it.

2. Our healthcare system. I'm a busy guy who doesn't like to fuck around, and don't like going to the doctor, but it's a necessary evil. About 5 years ago, I had a physical and the appointment went just fine. I made it CLEAR to the doctor to NOT call me back for a follow up unless there was something wrong BESIDES my cholestorol being a "Little" high. He said, "No problem."

Two days later I get a call to come back to the doctor.

Knowing what I requested and he agreed to, I was a little nervous to say the least, but I made my appointment for 10:15 in the morning. I always schedule as early as I can, because they shouldn't be far behind.

At around 11:00 I watched the waiting room fill BEYOND capacity and started to get a little pissed off. I went up to make sure I hadn't missed my name at some point and heard three other people check in. One had an appointment scheduled at 11:05, another at 11:10 and another at 11:15.

Now, if you know how our health system works, you know a doctor gets paid in 15 minute blocks. 45 for physicals I believe, but 15 on a general appointment. But THIS guy was booking appointments FIVE minutes apart, AND I had lost an hour of my time.

I finally got in to see him around 11:30 that morning. "Hello Mr.Stewart. We got your test results back, and your cholestorol seems to be a little high." I was in the office for less than a minute before I called him a prick and walked out. He got paid for 15 minutes though.

I'm getting pissed off just typing this, so I can only imagine how pissed off I was at this point. So, I went to the doctor's administration and filed a complaint. I was told that the doctor was doing nothing wrong.

No customer service-to be nice. Outright LYING to my face-to be more accurate. Booking patients in 5 minutes blocks but billing for 15 is pretty much theft in my eyes. But his superior saw it as he was doing NOTHING WRONG.

That's government Chris. Waste our money, waste our time and call it business as usual.

It's the apathy like your showing that further allows them to get away with it btw. What's $3,000 on a dinner. Nothing? That's just the tip of the iceberg my friend.