The new Epassporte Visa debit card

[Evil Chris]

Call me devil's advocate, but I'm not fully convinced that Epassporte is going to immediately "change the way business is done on the Internet".

http://www.avnonline.com/issues/200301/newsarchive/010903_leadpr.shtml

When it comes to money, there are never short-cuts. There will always be people in the middle of transactions who will want their cut. This seems to me to be a loop-hole of sorts, where the banks and the credit card companies are cut out of all transactions (more or less). It all sounds a little fly by night to me right now, but I guess we'll find out.

If it flys... then great. We will all potentially make a ton more money. But I think we all know that nothing comes easy, and the trend has been tougher rather than easier as of late. Let's wait and see.

[Darin]

Dunno, looks like Paypal to me.

Why don't sponsors just payout using paypal every day, doh, same shit :P

At least people trust PayPal. I use mine all the time everywhere.

[Mister X]

Seems like a rather stupid and useless idea. It's not going to help anybody that has trouble signing up with a credit card because you need a credit card to put money on it. If the system won't accept someone's cc to join a site why would it suddenly accept it to put money into this? These guys just don't think when they come up with this crap. And you can't rebill a debit card either. If somebody is worried about having a pornsite signup appear on their credit card statement then they're probably going to be worried about this thing appearing on their cc statement too, so that's not going to help signups either. It has the same flaws as paypal, i.e.: why use a credit card to put money towards something else if you can just use the credit card? The vast majority of Paypal transactions take place in cases where Paypal is the only form of payment accepted. It doesn't really take the banks and CC companies out of the loop, it just puts them earlier in the process. They still get their cut when the guy charges this thing up. When he signs up to a site I assume it would be like a pre-approved sort of thing and go through more or less automatically. But that doesn't make anything easier for anyone really.

[Raya]

It seems like just another hoop to jump through or a band aid for a quick fix. Pay pall is not for everyone. Some where out there there is a solution let's hope it arrives soon.

[Kenny B]

I doubt it'll help sign ups but it seems like a great new way to launder money:-)

[Darin]

Maybe im missing something, isnt this just to pay out webmasters for signups?!?!?

Why not use paypal? I dont get it. I got a paypal debt/mastercard in my wallet. Works everywhere, and instantly can spend money thats transferred.

Someone tell me how this is a new idea? Besides being paid daily, that I like :)

[Mister X]

Originally posted by Darin
Maybe im missing something, isnt this just to pay out webmasters for signups?!?!?

Why not use paypal? I dont get it. I got a paypal debt/mastercard in my wallet. Works everywhere, and instantly can spend money thats transferred.

Someone tell me how this is a new idea? Besides being paid daily, that I like :) It's supposed to be a complete payment system that is going to be a magic fix to let people who are being scrubbed and shit join sites. What I can't figure out is why they wouldn't be scrubbed when they use their CC to put money on the stupid thing in the first place. They still have to go through Visa or whoever when they go through Epoch's billing to put cash on it. All it is is Paypal with a different name.

[gunner]

well, I have to at least applaud Epoch for trying something new. I
think it's time for the big boys, both CC processors and affiliate progs. to step up to the plate and attempt to find some reasonable means
of circumventing the credit card companies. AKA = alternative billing.

If they can get the acceptance/support of some major players, then something like this has a change of succeeding.

[Kenny B]

Originally posted by gunner
well, I have to at least applaud Epoch for trying something new. I
think it's time for the big boys, both CC processors and affiliate progs. to step up to the plate and attempt to find some reasonable means
of circumventing the credit card companies. AKA = alternative billing.

If they can get the acceptance/support of some major players, then something like this has a change of succeeding.

I agree with you, I spoke with a rep at epoch and they want to work with the webmaster and get feedback

[Evil Chris]

Originally posted by gunner
If they can get the acceptance/support of some major players, then something like this has a change of succeeding. I hope you're right gunner.... but when it comes to billing, I think the banks will endlessly be in control of no matter what, and they will want their payoff.. errr I mean FEE. ;)

[Mister X]

I think it's a great idea to try and get away from the CC companies' stranglehold. I just don't see how pushing a product that depends on surfers having a credit card is gonna do that. Everyone knows that Visa, et. al are an anchor around the neck of the online porn industry but there is no political power in the industry to stop it. And that's the only thing that can put a leash on the fuckers. It's standard practice to give a full refund to anyone that asks for it if the charge is for a pornsite. Will the same thing be the case if the big record industry sites ever get going? Or the movie d/l sites? I frigging well doubt it. There's the answer to Visa's bullshit about high chargeback rates right there. If someone had the balls to say "You were a member and used the service that you paid for. No refund." it would be the end of that. But instead we're still paying for the greed of a few people that got very rich in earlier days of the industry.

[LAJ]

To put it simply... I think it's a great idea. Took a lot of balls for Epoch to put this together and go for it. Our industry needs to innovate as often as possible and bypass any and all attempts to slow or shut us down.

[Evil Chris]

Watch out for a YNOT article coming out today featuring an interview with Rand from Epassporte. It will probably shed a lot of light on this subject (at least from Epassporte's point of view).

Should be a link to it on the main page shortly. Feel free to comment on the article right here in this thread.

[LAJ]

Alright folks... the interview is now live...
http://www.ynotmasters.com/news/ynews/issues/011603/page11.html

Here is the rest of this week's YNOTNews issue... http://www.ynotmasters.com/news/ynews/

Enjoy!!

[DragonKing]

There is a difference between paypal and what Flash Cash /epoch are doing.. a HUGE one.

Try letting PayPal find out your doing adult transactions and your in jeapordy of being put in High Risk which they can (and have) sieze your account no matter what amount is in their!

Your not paid daily, your paid instantly for a signup. Now, this may not be re inventing the wheel but it is as far as our industry is concerned. I spoke in depth with Amparo at the show and I was very impressed by the thought and planning that went into this.
I applaud anyone with balls enough to make a move to better our industry and to be innovative enough to try new things.


Being a former owner of Flash Cash and working with Jason. Mark and Amber for years I can honestly tell you, do not bet against this crew!
This was well thought out and planned and then thought out again.

I saw some talk about CC fraud and of course I had some questions myself about this when talking with Emparo but You can rest assure that Flash Cash has state of the art filtering/scripting in place to prevent/catch/stop/ potential cc fraud.

This is Why Epoch teamed up with Flash Cash on such a project.
Although I havent heard first hand I'm assuming this was Jason's brain child. :)

As with any new idea it will be under the micro scope and may have bugs that need to be worked out by this program is far from useless and is a giant step in Visa/adult communication and realtionships as well as moving us foward into the future of online proccessing and the way webmasters get paid.

Kudos to Flash Cash and Epoch for Stepping up and not sitting back idle collecting money and waiting to retire!!!!!

Thats my two cents!
Smoke It!

<img src="http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/u/bandit.gif" width="28" height="21">

[luke]

Originally posted by Mister X
..... And you can't rebill a debit card either....

I think you can. Gotomypc.com was charing me $20 a month for me using their service and I used my debit card.

I think its definitaly worth a shot and trying. I've got a lot of faith in Epoch and I'm interested in seeing how it work out.

[JasonRhino]

Gentlemen,
to clarify a few things:

1. You can rebill a debit card.

2. Funding epassporte accounts is subject to much lower scrub than joining an adult site. This is because it is almost impossible to charge back a funding transaction. So customers who you could not accept on your adult site can fund their epassporte accounts - you will get more signups :)

After the surfer joins an adult site with an epassporte card, who do you think processes the chargeback requests? Epassporte do. There will be no more chargebacks/refunds except when there has been **genuine** fraud. No more cases of the wife calling up and getting the husband's membership to 'Teen Teen Teen' charged back - on our lesbian site it's usually the husband that calls up, hehe ;)

Hope this sheds some light on why this is a fantastic concept for billing surfers.

Now if you want to be PAID in real-time instead of waiting weeks for your check...come to http://www.flashcash.com

Jason

[Pidgin]

Evil Chris.
As I understand, its not supposed to make anyone rich. It wont make you more money or anything- just make it possible to access the money you make instantly via debit card.
I thought its not so confusing. I guess I'm wrong. I think its a nice idea in general and I join gunner in giving a thumbs-up for a new idea. True like Darin said - there are alternatives today that do something somewhat similar, but its even easier than PayPal for most of us. Going to an ATM in the street with this card is easier than cashing out on a payPal account.
Nice idea overall (imho) but as Chris said - time will tell.

[Mister X]

Well now that we have a little more info it certainly sounds more useful. I certainly didn't know you could rebill a debit card. That in itself makes a big difference. And being paid instantly for signups is something I'm sure most people can get behind, hehe.

I do have one question as someone who has to operate without a credit card for a while longer though. Is this system going to use the same sort of account confirmation as Paypal? In other words: do you have to register a credit card with the system before you can receive money on it? In my opinion that's the biggest failing of Paypal.

[Evil Chris]

Jason,
Thanks for chiming in and clarifying a couple of points...
I hope that the ePassporte idea will change the way we think about online billing. We've been itching for an alternative billing solution for a long time now, and I really hope this pans out.

However, what is the down side of the ePassporte method?

[JasonRhino]

Hey Evil Chris,

Only billing downside is that it's a debit card, so the surfer needs to have money on the card, rather than just be under their credit limit.

I don't think it will replace billing on credit cards, but it certainly is an excellent alternative billing method which will allow us to take more transactions with less risk.

It's also a great way to get paid by your sponsor ;) Go to http://www.flashcash.com to get your card and try it out.

[Darin]

So I need to get the card from flashcash then. Is this the only way? I thought this was done through Epoch.

[Mister X]

From the Erotism.com newsletter:
Get paid on a credit card (GammaCash)
As of the next scheduled payout, all webmasters will have the possibility to get their monies paid onto a Visa Electron credit card instead of the traditional options (cheque, wire or Paypal). The payments will be made through the Epassport system. More details on this new awesome feature will be available as of next week!!
Looks Like Gamma is jumping on the bandwagon too.

[Evil Chris]

Originally posted by Mister X
From the Erotism.com newsletter:

Looks Like Gamma is jumping on the bandwagon too. I would think that anyone processing with Paycom will jump on this as fast as they can...