>>> The long anticipated icq chat log. Who is the jerk?

[Pidgin]

Clarification:
* I deleted the name of the company. Besides that - the chat log is untouched
* This has been 10 days ago more or less.
* needless to say I haven't heard from him since.
* This chat starts after several attempts to contact him over several days prior to this chat.

Tell me if its me (Pidgin) that is hyper-sensitive and in-fact thats a descent customer rep by your standard?
Your comments are welcome and appriciated


Pidgin 1/28/200 5:08 PM hello

Arnaud 1/28/200 7:38 PM hello

Arnaud 1/28/200 7:50 PM who are you ?

Pidgin 1/29/200 2:49 PM My name is Ron Kass
            I think you are from D****s. Tell me if I
            am wrong.
Arnaud 1/29/200 5:33 PM you are not wrong :)
Arnaud 1/29/200 5:34 PM I'm Arnaud
            what can i do for you ?

Pidgin 1/29/200 5:34 PM I was talking to another guy with your company
            and he told me to contact you about promoting
            your system.
            It took me quite some time to get in touch
            with you :) I hope its not typical

Arnaud 1/29/200 5:36 PM i just received an "hello" from you yesterday
            which i replied to
            what can i do for you ?

Pidgin 1/29/200 5:38 PM I am considering becoming an affiliate of
            D****s. I do though want to promote it
            without creating an AVS site. only through
            banners etc.

Arnaud 1/29/200 5:39 PM what kind of volume are we talking about ?

Pidgin 1/29/200 5:41 PM I will start with low volume - banner only
            advertising.
            My webmaster might know volumes better than
            me.
            If it proves to be high converting system I
            may use it on XXXManager.com

Arnaud 1/29/200 5:48 PM ok let me get this straight : this is a great
            opportunity for anybody to be able to promote
            D*****s without an archive. At this time, i work
            with 9 large volumes sites whom send me
            between 2,5k and 20k daily traffic with a
            conversion of 1:110 believe it or not
            for 25 or more signups per day, i am
            interested in helping you out.
            for less, you'll create the account and you'll
            do everything by yourself and you'll never
            hear about me
            is that ok for you ?

Pidgin 1/29/200 5:49 PM Is that an explanation or a threat??

Arnaud 1/29/200 5:49 PM that's just the way it works buddy :)

Pidgin 1/29/200 5:51 PM well. I want to test your program to see if it
            is something I would like to promote for long
            term. If I can do it on my own I will. If I
            fail I won't promote it.
            is that ok for you ?

Arnaud 1/29/200 5:55 PM fine for me dude :)
            My point is that if you make 2 signups a day,
            i will not be here to help you out
            If you make 25 signups, that's different

Pidgin 1/29/200 5:57 PM Arnaud, you act the way you want or your
            company (if its not yours) tells you to and I
            will judge your system based on everything
            including your attitude and support.

Arnaud 1/29/200 5:57 PM thank you very much :)

Pidgin 1/29/200 6:00 PM Now..
            is there anything special I should know about
            your program besides your attitude?
            Like links and rules for non-avs-site
            promotion?

Arnaud 1/29/200 6:04 PM i am not sure i understand your question
            tell me a bit more about your traffic, this
            will help me finding out the best way for you
            to promote us

Arnaud 1/29/200 6:05 PM and signup here :
            http://*.*.*.*/trackers/newaffiliate.php

Arnaud 1/29/200 6:07 PM and please stop talking about my attitude, i
            do not have one, i am just explaining how we
            work. If you are not happy with the way we
            work, you are more than welcome to chek out
            the competition:).
            What we are offering with this system is
            unique and this is an opportunity for you, not
            for me
            no hard feelings, just wanted to clarify :)

Pidgin 1/29/200 6:08 PM I have traffic or places I can promote
            programs. I do not want to open an AVS site so
            promoting an AVS system is only an option for
            me if I can promote the system without owning
            one of the AVS sites on it (an "external"
            affiliate if you want to call it that way). I
            will start with little traffic for a while to
            see if I think it converts well for me and if
            I think it is I will grow from there.

Pidgin 1/29/200 6:08 PM Hell of clarification!
            I am honored to be given this opportunity.
            Thank you.

Arnaud 1/29/200 6:08 PM no problem :)

Pidgin 1/29/200 6:14 PM Sorry for it but I was actually a tiny-little
            bit sarcastic with the "I'm honored... thank
            you"..
            Are you sure its just me? Or is something
            wrong with your attitude?

Arnaud 1/29/200 6:18 PM i would propose to start all over again in a
            couple of hours or tomorrow as this conversion
            obviously does not lead anywhere. I am not
            sure we are on a good field to make the best
            possible business together.
            What do you think about that proposal ?

Arnaud 1/29/200 6:24 PM it's just a proposal, feel free to tell me
            anything you'd like to do :)
            i am not trying to be sarcastic here, i am
            just trying to find how to close this deal
            professionnally

Pidgin 1/29/200 6:24 PM I think it shouldn't take you several hours to
            reevaluate your attitude in this conversation.
            Just check out our not-too-long ICQ
            conversation history.
            Then again, maybe it’s me too sensitive and
            you are using a very new sales technique that
            is aimed towards creating some strange/unique
            feeling of awe in me (and sadly seems to fail
            in that)
            I'll offer you an alternative approach..
            We will stop our conversation at this pint and
            if you come to think you might have been doing
            something fundamentally wrong here contact me
            again and I'll be happy to talk about what I
            came here to talk in the first place.

Arnaud 1/29/200 6:29 PM thank you so much
            I'll do that


So- what do you say people?

[StuartD]

Something "dirty" about that :D

[pornodoggy]

It seems to me that you made it very clear that you wanted to to some kind of trial run before sending major traffic. After that we get ...
for 25 or more signups per day, i am
interested in helping you out.
for less, you'll create the account and you'll
do everything by yourself and you'll never
hear about me
is that ok for you ?

This is the customer service guy you are talking to, right? I'd have terminated the conversation at this point. On a particularly good day, I would have made it past there but definitely would have quit at
My point is that if you make 2 signups a day,
i will not be here to help you out
If you make 25 signups, that's different

The appropriate response (IMHO) from the guy would have been, "Well, how long to do want to run the test? What kind of help from us would you like during the test?"

[StuartD]

doesn't somone who can only get 2 signups a day need more help than someone getting 25?

[Pidgin]

Originally posted by StuartD
doesn't somone who can only get 2 signups a day need more help than someone getting 25?
MUHAHA
Exactly.
And pornodoggy - As you sugested - It was a very good day for me - atleast untill this conversation ::-|

[pornodoggy]

I know of a couple of sponsors out there that don't want to mess with small operaters, and since it is their business, they certainly have the right to do it. I can even understand why. There are any number of non-adult/non-net businesses where minimums are imposed on affiliates.

My concern with this particular chat log is the guy seems to have a "fuck you - take my word for it. there's no need for a test and if you want to run one we won't support you." Like I said, I would have terminated the conversation at that point and went on about my bidnez. I would have been annoyed, for sure - but probably not ten days later, and certainly not enough to post the chat log. I'd just have put them on the "Do Business With Just After Hell Freezes Over" list.

A couple of months back a friend suggested that I contact someone regarding my participation in a program with minimums. I ICQ'd the guy, explained that I didn't think I could make the minimums but that I would give it my best shot. I didn't hear a thing back from him.

Now, the person may have never gotten my ICQ, or, since I wasn't in his contact list, may have just deleted it without reading it. If that happened, no big deal. If I were on the other end of the situation, I personally would have responded somehow, even if it was just a polite "sorry, no". That's what business people do (because the little guy who can't meet your minimums today may not always be a little guy), IMHO. Not everybody does business that way - for all I know, that may be considered "Old School" by some folks. I didn't get pissed, I didn't rant, I just moved on to the next possibility.

[Darin]

Tell us who it is, so we don't do business with this dork.

.. WHAT A DICK!!

[XxXotic]

yeah that company is a joke and so is that dude. i wouldnt send him 1 signup a year with an attitude like that, i dont care if he converted 1:2


(ok, well 1:2 might be stretchin it,) :p

[Masters]

Actually any company has every right to initiate any type of support model and/or whatever degree of support levels to traffic producing Webmasters they choose.

Though I may not agree nor support this type of business and support model it is, in fact, the one that Arnaud apparently made clear is company policy. So is he wrong? Not entirely, if what he said is in fact the company's policy. Yet he sure could have been a bit more sensitive and diplomatic in his responses and the way it was handled.


Be interesting what the company would have to say about all this.


Keep on Rockin'

[Pidgin]

Hehe. Me too. Very interested what they would say. But I guess thats why I am asking you people...
WHAT DO YOU SAY?
Not about the guideline of large customers only - I have no problems with that. I am talking about the attitude!!!


Some quotes from what he said

1.
for less, you'll create the account and you'll do everything by yourself and you'll never hear about meis that ok for you ?

2.
My point is that if you make 2 signups a day,i will not be here to help you out If you make 25 signups, that's different

3.
If you are not happy with the way we work, you are more than welcome to chek out the competition.
What we are offering with this system is unique and this is an opportunity for you, not for me
no hard feelings, just wanted to clarify


and he finishes by saying

i am not trying to be sarcastic here, i am just trying to find how to close this deal professionnally



HOW PROFESSIONAL IS THAT?
His company will or atleast should say the same as all of you do. They may say they indeed require a minimum ammount of traffic or sales from affiliates - but saying "if you have less that ... you will not hear from us!" or "this is an opportunity for you, not for me" ????

Business aside - we are still humans!
GOD DAMN - Do you think its acceptable??

[Darin]

It's obvious, they don't know how much massive traffic you control on a daily basis.

Their loss!! Fuck'em! :D

[Pidgin]

Originally posted by Darin
It's obvious, they don't know how much massive traffic you control on a daily basis.
Their loss!! Fuck'em! :D
It shouldn't even matter man.
I think a company rep should be NICE regardless of how "big" is the person he is dealing with. This is more a human thing than a business thing but its also a business thing.
People?
Were you ever treated in a "funny" way like this more or less, by someone from another company? What did you think then?

[pornodoggy]

It is not what I consider to be professional conduct on their part, no, but I see more of it theses days than I used to, and see a lot of it on the net than in the real world.

IMHO, they are a company that cannot take a joke ... and we all know what we should do with folks like that. :D

[Magick]

Originally posted by pornodoggy
It is not what I consider to be professional conduct on their part, no, but I see more of it theses days than I used to, and see a lot of it on the net than in the real world.

IMHO, they are a company that cannot take a joke ... and we all know what we should do with folks like that. :D

I'll take your business and you can talk to me all day ;)

ICQ 109972218
AOL IM MagicksAntics

:p

[Pidgin]

Originally posted by Magick
I'll take your business and you can talk to me all day ;)
ICQ 109972218
AOL IM MagicksAntics
:p
You're not gonna give us this attitude I hope :bonk:
Shit! I had enough punkass sales reps for a year :D

[Mister X]

It seems like this guy had a pretty piss poor attitude from the start. when someone icqs me for the first time I don't say "Who are you?". I say "What can I do for you?". Their company policy is their company policy but it could certainly have been stated in a less confrontational manner. He never asked anything except for what kind of volume you'd be sending. Not what kind of operation you run or what kind of traffic, just how much. And as soon as you said that it wasn't going to be a huge volume he went out of his way to say that he wasn't going to help you with anything. And the very worst thing is that he never even once asked what kind of questions you might have and didn't really answer the questions that you did ask. A VERY bad example of how to handle affiliate relations.

As an example of how things SHOULD be done: The very first affiliate program I signed up with was Gamma. About 2 weeks after that I got an icq from a rep (I think it was Ozzy) telling me that I had f*ed up the links on the site so I wasn't getting my traffic counted. And at the time I think I was sending maybe 20 clicks a day and hadn't even got a signup yet.

[Pidgin]

Mister X
Totally agree with everything you said.
I do the same. "Who are you?" is a very bad start. But that was hardly the pinnacle of our conversation - you must admit :p
I think its funny we are surprised when people are nice :bonk:
Isn't it supposed to be the other way around? atleast thats what I think.

[Bruno Dickman]

Hey Ron how goes it bro?

Dude, its amazing how UNprofessional this sales rep acted, from the beginning of the conversation untill his last sentence.

We certainly own part of our success here at Dickmans Design to our professional and friendly customer service. Our clients are our reason to live. They are our bosses. Everything we do is done to please them - This is the ONLY goal of a services provider like us. To Provide solutions to our clients, making their life easier! :)

I dont know what kind of drugs the guy was taking when he said "hey its a good opportunity for you, not for me" - he certainly never read a book about customer service. And I am sure he is not the owner of the company either - he is probably a very unhappy sales rep, trying to loose his job. :)

And please do the industry a favor, dont send a single hit to this company - they dont deserve to make money, unless they email you a very good excuse.


Take care ahi!

Bruno Dickman

[jact]

Having been involved in the customer service aspect of business for more than a dozen years now, I can honestly tell you that this guy started the conversation with a chip on his shoulder. He's an elistest, him saying it's an opportunity for you and not for them. BULLSHIT, every bit of business, be it one signup a month to 50 signups a day is an opportunity for them to line their pockets. Each and EVERY customer is gold, even if they don't end up making you a penny.

People won't talk about companies that have good customer support for the most part, but what about companies with poor customer support? People are going to talk, just like we are here. Would you want your company being talked about in such a way? If you had revealed who the company is, I would definitly not deal with them in any form.

[Pidgin]

Do you think I should get someone from that company to this thread?
Do you think I should tell you which company is that?

[jact]

Originally posted by XXXManager
Do you think I should get someone from that company to this thread?
Do you think I should tell you which company is that?

I might refer someone higher than the dick to the thread to be fair to the company, and yes, I'd tell us who it was.

[twinkley]

Hey XXXManager!

I think I know who you are talking about. I dont think he was trying to be snotty (altho it did sound that way) - I think its an honest matter of mis-communication. If I'm right about the person/company then I know he is not english and does not speak/write it all that well. That can be a big problem in this biz :)

Either way, use who you want to use.... and if you want to send your traffic somewhere, you can always send it to me hon :) You KNOW I wont treat ya bad :)

twinkley

[Phoenix]

wow...that must have been a stressful coversation...i think it reflects poorly on the rep. i am suprised that he is cutting 25 joins per day deals...obviously when dealing with anyone who is paid on comission or owns their own business they will like you better if you make them more money(not the best way to say that but oh well)...but i have become friends with people who have sent me zero traffic, as they were intelligent and good to speak to...now they are making more money...and i am making money with them.

i have also been tested by some people as well...asking me ridiculous questions, and saying odd things...which i struggled through and after awhile found out, it was just a test...and now i am making good money with them....so word to the wise...you never know who you have on your ICQ

[Pidgin]

Just to make it clear, because I heard a speculation about who it is
This is NOT DirtyDollars. I am sayying that becase the deleted company name was D___S and the name of the guy was Arnaud and I was told there is a guy named that way working there. So its NOT them.

Twinkley - Its not a matter of english. Saying "for less, you'll create the account and you'll do everything by yourself and you'll never hear about me" or "What we are offering with this system is unique and this is an opportunity for you, not for me" is NOT a question of language.
Twinkley, I know you won't treat me bad cause thats just you. Not a question of language.

And Phoenix and others - The deal with the 25 signups thing is especially funny because - afaik - this company is not big.

Think if I would tell my users - "for less than 1K/day you will not hear from me and will have to help yourself. If you grow to that than I will pay attention to you". How will that sound?

[Panky]

I wouldn't post the name of the company. There could be many reps from this company who do an excellent job. People who would've handled the situation more professionally and more than likely had a much more positive, productive conversation.

I don't necessarily agree with this particular reps approach. I would just go above him and complain. Just because this rep acted in the manner he did, doesn't necessarily mean the company itself is horrible.

Give someone else a chance from within the company to work with you. Depending on how the conversation goes, will depend on if you choose to conduct business with them. If they act the way this guy did, then posting their name and lettting everyone know how they handle clients or potential clients would be fair.

?



<img src="http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/r/biggrininvert.gif" width="15" height="15">

Panky
ICQ:51140074

[Pidgin]

Panky: I totally agree.
Actually I already decided not posting the company name some time ago. It wouldn't be fair for the company since the guy does not necessarily represent the company's attitude (atleast I hope he doesn't).

As to the issue of the 25 thing, its as I said their right to have policies like that though I dont see how someone can work by that rule :)
If lets say I some sponsor 100K hits and make 15 sales, is it my bad and I dont deserve help? or the sponsor? hehe. Maybe ESPECIALLY then I should need help from one of them? Don't you think?? (or maybe its the sponsor who needs help :D )

I do wonder if I should bother telling the company about it - or maybe its none of my business?
BUT I would tell you not to deal with this specific guy atleast BUT since you don't know which company this is how can you avoid him? Avoid ALL Arnuad? thats silly :bonk:

[twinkley]

Yeah,

After re-reading the messages a couple of times, I guess you are right. Flatly saying if you cant do X amount of business for us, we dont want your business at all is pretty stupid. I mean, how many webmasters can really push that kind of traffic through many sponsors let alone 1.

*HUGS FOR XXXManager*

twinkley

[Magick]

Originally posted by XXXManager
You're not gonna give us this attitude I hope :bonk:
Shit! I had enough punkass sales reps for a year :D

Me? Have an attitude? hehehehehe

:D

[Pidgin]

Hehe.
News update :D
Just talked to the "president/owner" of the company.
Sent him the chatlog and he said he will talk to the guy which is apparently as the owner says the guy "doing the marketing, taking care of the traffic and stuff like that". ( I'd say he really takes care of that alright ;) )

Anyway - The bottom line is...
The company will remain anonymous as should be. The matter in resolved as far as I am concerned. My hopes and belief is its not the company's attitude.

(just beware of the "Arnaud" ;) )

[Darin]

I say you bitch slap him at the next conference :)

:D

[Pidgin]

Nhaaa.
Not my style...


Though I may fishhook him if he asks nicely :p

[poppy]

Hi Ron,

I know who this is and he is a good guy. I would like to hope it is miscommuncation due to language differences.

It does surprise me, however, how he handled some of the conversation.

This is an unbiased point of view.

Poppy

[elmejor]

Hi there to everybody.
First i want to say that i am not a native english speaker, so if i make some mistakes, belive me, will not be with any bad intention. Wanted to clarify that because i don`t want to be a jerk like that Ardaud guy :)

Now.. i am the one that convinced Ron to contact that company, thought we could do some good deals with them and also thought that he is much known in adult business then i am and could have an advantage..
As u all seen and agree, even u don`t have to be someone to enjoy a program, they have the right to accept you or not, but they also need to have some common sense.

That's all for now... i think i`ll keep close to this forum from now on :)

[TopGun]

XXXManager,

I've owned many business' (Not just on the web but more offline) And in the past 12 years there are a few things that I have learned.

I have let ignorance slide in my employees from time to time hopes of training. I have let eeven tempers flair from employees, to let them get bad vibes out of their system.

But the one thing that I have fired people over time and time again, is from bad attitude. Everyone deserves common courtesy. Everyone expects and deserves it. If I ever saw anyone working for me show that attitude I would fire thier ass so fast the door wouldn't have time to hit thier ass.

I had a girl screw up a media buy and cost me over 6,000.00 in one pop. She stayed and I never even thought of firing her. I had another girl who answered the phone with an attitude, and heard her tell the customer if they didn't like the way we did our job they should seek another firm. I fired that bitch literally before the phone hung up. The customer was a low budget customer who tended to get irritated at the smallest things but that didn't matter.

So who would cost me more money in the long run?, certainly not the one that screwed up the buy. It's the ones that give you and your company a bad name by having a selfish, shitty attitude.

I'm glad you posted it. You let us all know who to watch out for. I would certainly never do business with them.

[cdsmith]

What araud was really telling you is that if you send low signups then you aren't worth his time. His position strikes me as short-sighted and narrow, but of course he and his company have a right to that position. If they only want to have to mail out 20 cheques a month to get their 300 signups a day instead of 300 cheques a month to get the same, then that's their affair I suppose.

But it sucks.


I wouldn't do business with such a company, nor would I recommend them to anyone either. I've had too many promotions reps contact me and all but fall all over me to promote them, WITHOUT me having to show the sales stats I've generated for other programs. Maybe this Arnaud guy was having a bad day.... but if that's the case he should have apologized the next day and made things right. People like us have traffic, and if sponsors want that traffic then they should at least show us affiliates a measure of courtesy and respect.

[Pidgin]

True.
I'm not calling out the company because I don't think (or hope) it's the company's attitude, nor do I desire them to fire the guy.
BUT I think they can only gain from changing BOTH the guys attitude AND the "guidelines" of their company - if they have that.

Does any of YOU have such guidelines? "More than 25 sales a month or no support"??????

[twinkley]

Hahahahahaha NO!

In fact, our policy is almost the opposite with our affliates. The majoriy of time goes to those who are waaaaay off from being able to pull in 25 signups a pay period. Those are the people who need the time and help so they can reach that level. If you are always bringing in that much revenue, how much help can you possibly need? You pretty much have the money making thing figured out right?

twinkley

[Pidgin]

Same here.. Maybe if someone tells me he is a TOTAL newbie and knows shit, I help him as much as I can. Maybe its just me or maybe its because I do something different than the sponsors.. But still, I think its a question of approach. Cause even if there is a reason for such a thing, its a strange ass sniffiing procedure to check if your possible client is big enough. hehe
But with all of us saying they can understand companies saying they deal only with bigger clients - I am wondering..
Is it really like this - are there any of you who have this approach of "we deal with big fish only"?

[MegaGiga]

Is it really like this - are there any of you who have this approach of "we deal with big fish only"?


Yep, we only accept the big fish on sexplanets! ;)


:bonk:

[twinkley]

SexPlanets?? Who are they??

hahahahahaha

*smooch*

twinkley

[Pidgin]

Twinkley..
Sexplanets are a something to do with Python afaik ;) lol

[MegaGiga]

Originally posted by XXXManager
Twinkley..
Sexplanets are a something to do with Python afaik ;) lol

::-| :badcomp: :eek:

[Nano]

Originally posted by XXXManager
Twinkley..
Sexplanets are a something to do with Python afaik ;) lol


Ouch!

[twinkley]

Hmmmmm

I vaguely remember (through a appletini haze) that the sexplanets guys are pretty cute.... hey, wanna do some biz :D

twinkley

[MegaGiga]

Originally posted by twinkley
Hmmmmm

I vaguely remember (through a appletini haze) that the sexplanets guys are pretty cute.... hey, wanna do some biz :D

twinkley

Call me! Purely for business of course.. :D ;)