clemons innocent?

[flashca$hkris]

He sounded very convincing

[B O B]

no way

guy is guilty guilty guilty

[Ronaldo]

no way

guy is guilty guilty guilty

And you're basing that on what? Have you seen any evidence? You've heard evidence from the media, that's it.

That's the one thing I must say I was happy to hear today, when the one senator said something along the lines of, "Regardless of what's been seen in the media, this man must be presumed innocent".

Be part of the solution Bob. Not part of the problem.

(Note-I posted elsewhere today that I think some of the questioning is shameful and the answers by BOTH parties evasive, but I don't have enough evidence to judge anyone...and neither do you.)

Was Mike Jones guilty?
Is Rob Black guilty?
Is Max Hardcore guilty?

Other than Mike Jones, noone here can offer an intelligent answer based on anything other than what they've read or seen in the media, and I'm betting people OUTSIDE the industry who kept up with the Mike Jones case assumed he was guilty too. Was that fair?

Sorry man. Don't mean to be snippy, but the influence of the media today is really getting to me. Gotta go...TMZ is on in 5 minutes. ;P

[B O B]

And you're basing that on what? Have you seen any evidence? You've heard evidence from the media, that's it.

That's the one thing I must say I was happy to hear today, when the one senator said something along the lines of, "Regardless of what's been seen in the media, this man must be presumed innocent".

Be part of the solution Bob. Not part of the problem.

(Note-I posted elsewhere today that I think some of the questioning is shameful and the answers by BOTH parties evasive, but I don't have enough evidence to judge anyone...and neither do you.)

Was Mike Jones guilty?
Is Rob Black guilty?
Is Max Hardcore guilty?

Other than Mike Jones, noone here can offer an intelligent answer based on anything other than what they've read or seen in the media, and I'm betting people OUTSIDE the industry who kept up with the Mike Jones case assumed he was guilty too. Was that fair?

Sorry man. Don't mean to be snippy, but the influence of the media today is really getting to me. Gotta go...TMZ is on in 5 minutes. ;P

lets just see what the DNA shows

the facts of his career are similar to those of someone who took roids
and mcnamee, nor pettite has reason to lie...

time will play this out, but in the meantime, in my mind, he is guilty

[Ronaldo]

lets just see what the DNA shows

the facts of his career are similar to those of someone who took roids
and mcnamee, nor pettite has reason to lie...

time will play this out, but in the meantime, in my mind, he is guilty

Absolutely. And to be honest, from what I'VE heard in the media, the guy sounds guilty too. But I think he deserves the right to have his day in court before anyone says he's guilty without any doubt.

I don't know if McNamee or Pettitte have any motivation to lie. I wouldn't think so, but I wouldn't have thought Bob Crane would have any reason to lie about anything either. Who knows WHAT goes on behind closed doors.

[TheEnforcer]

Guy is totally guilty. Lied his ass off to congress.

[Evil Chris]

Who did he kill?

I can't believe the money and effort going in to this thing.
What a waste.

[Ronaldo]

Do you wanna know how scary the media influence has become today? If they were to come up with some conclusive evidence that Clemens didn't take steroids, to a GREAT number of people it wouldn't matter. They're so sure he's guilty, again, based on nothing more than media reports, that they'd be convinced the evidence was fake, there is now a conspiracy and the guy is still guilty.

I personally can't STAND Roger Clemens. I think he's an arrogant fuck. But in this particular case, I really hope they find out he didn't take them. I'd like to see how accurate I am with what I said above (although I already know it's true), and maybe a few more people would realize that just because you see something on TV or in print, it isn't necessarily the truth. No matter HOW many media outlets are reporting it.

[Evil Chris]

I personally can't STAND Roger Clemens. I think he's an arrogant fuck.Why do you think this way Ron? Based on the way the media portrays him? Or do you know him personally?
See... you're caught up in it but at the same time you bitch about the media. So are you influenced by it or what?

Personally I don't give a damn. I can't believe the attention it's getting.

[Ronaldo]

Why do you think this way Ron? Based on the way the media portrays him? Or do you know him personally?
See... you're caught up in it but at the same time you bitch about the media. So are you influenced by it or what?

Personally I don't give a damn. I can't believe the attention it's getting.

That's a good point and you're right. But thinking someone is a jerk based on how he behaves when there are cameras around is a little different than thinking he's guilty of a crime without knowing all the evidence. If I was on a jury and I thought he was a jerk, I'd still look at the evidence. If I was on a jury and had a preconceived notion that he was guilty, I'd have a biased look at the evidence. THAT'S what dangerous about the media today. Once you're convicted by the court of public opinion, there's no getting your reputation back...it's that simple. Like I said, even if they found him completely innocent tomorrow, his reputation is tarnished forever, because some people will refuse to believe it.

[B O B]

Absolutely. And to be honest, from what I'VE heard in the media, the guy sounds guilty too. But I think he deserves the right to have his day in court before anyone says he's guilty without any doubt.

I don't know if McNamee or Pettitte have any motivation to lie. I wouldn't think so, but I wouldn't have thought Bob Crane would have any reason to lie about anything either. Who knows WHAT goes on behind closed doors.


the question here was *do you think he is guilty*

my answer was YES...thats what i think...

doesnt mean he is or isnt...or the press influenced me, or i saw him do it personally...

my thoughts are that he is guilty at this point.

btw...his wife admitted to getting injected with HGH and never told Roger...now PUHLEASE your husband is a world class athlete, you are a stay at home mother, and you dont ask or gather advice from your husband before you shoot a then, untested, chemical in your ass?

i dont buy that one either

anyways...i think the man is guilty...I wish he wasnt, I really do...

[Rochard]

Why the FUCK are they having hearings about baseball while the US had eight school shootings in one week?

It's gotten so common that they don't even comment about them on the news now.....

[Ronaldo]

Why the FUCK are they having hearings about baseball while the US had eight school shootings in one week?

It's gotten so common that they don't even comment about them on the news now.....

Eight? I hadn't heard about eight. That's fucked up, but not really surprising.

10-03-2006, 12:06 PM from another board
Sad to say, but I see this as natural progression. Ever since CNN turned the Columbine killers (Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold) into celebrities and with the explosion of reality TV, people WANT to be famous, and WANT to be on TV. How they GET famous and on TV doesn't really seem to matter.

Imagine how many people are sitting around RIGHT NOW, thinking, "It'll be my turn soon." They're watching all the press these people get, albeit posthumously, and if they're thinking of killing themself anyways, why not get themself some notoriety at the same time? Noone would remember them otherwise. But we'll remember them now.

I named the two Columbine killers above. Can ANYONE name TWO of the VICTIMS?? If noone cheats and uses google, that should prove my point. If the news channels stopped making celebrities of the killers and instead focused on the VICTIMS, there may be fewer of these over time.

I fully expect to see MANY more of these kinds of attacks in the future. I REALLY hope I'm wrong. :2 cents:
Sadly I WASN'T wrong.

[Ronaldo]

Actually, I do have to say, that I've noticed with the last couple of shootings they've covered extensively, to their credit, they HAVE mentioned the victims names a lot more and the killers name less. Or seemingly less at least.

[Evil Chris]

Ron, I still want to know something.
Do you believe that Clemons is innocent? Or are you just trying to drive home your point of the media influence? What's your real feeling on all this?

[Ronaldo]

Ron, I still want to know something.
Do you believe that Clemons is innocent? Or are you just trying to drive home your point of the media influence? What's your real feeling on all this?
Based on what I'VE SEEN IN THE MEDIA, I'd be leaning towards guilty. But I couldn't say decisively either way because neither I, nor anyone here know ALL the evidence. So anyone screaming from the top of a mountain that the guy is definitely guilty is out of line. Where are they getting the information to convict the guy? A court of law? Transcripts of ALL the hearings? No. From the media. Does anyone here know what happened behind closed doors and what was said that made so many panel members side WITH Clemens? No, we don't.

But it's not even JUST about the media influence. It's about how people predetermine guilt without all the facts, albeit BASED ONLY on what they see in media.

Understand?

If someone here was arrested at their home and led away in handcuffs in front of their neighbors, who saw the coverage on the news that night...would THEY appreciate being presumed guilty by their neighbors? I'm guessing not.

[Evil Chris]

I don't know why you're bitching so hard on this one. If we all listened to your rhetoric, we'd all be zombies walking around believing whatever CNN tells us. Believe it or not Ron, people have their own minds. What the media portrays isn't necessarily what the general public is going to believe at face value.

You think people are idiots and just believe everything they hear. You're afraid of media influence? That's what it sounds like to me, man. Just say no! Don't buy into it. :)

[Ronaldo]

I don't know why you're bitching so hard on this one. If we all listened to your rhetoric, we'd all be zombies walking around believing whatever CNN tells us. Believe it or not Ron, people have their own minds. What the media portrays isn't necessarily what the general public is going to believe at face value.

You think people are idiots and just believe everything they hear. You're afraid of media influence? That's what it sounds like to me, man. Just say no! Don't buy into it. :)

Yeah, I'm afraid of the media influence on the weakminded like Bob (Don't get me STARTED on Chris Hansen). Do you NOT think the media had a LOT to do with the recent rash of school shootings? Duh. Of course it did. They prey on the weak and unstable. Much like people that watch Big Brother. (Actually, I take that back. Their target audience is the stupid.) :P

[B O B]

weakminded?
wtf dude
you went from ragging about press on a personal opinion thread to now calling me weak minded?

[Ronaldo]

weakminded?
wtf dude
you went from ragging about press on a personal opinion thread to now calling me weak minded?

I apologize Bob. I was only joking. You should know I'd never say that seriously about you. Or ANYONE for that matter.

Hmm, maybe Chris.

Man, the last thing that made me laugh this hard was this picture of abulletaway...

[Ronaldo]

Like WTF??

[Evil Chris]

Yeah, I'm afraid of the media influence on the weakminded like Bob (Don't get me STARTED on Chris Hansen). Do you NOT think the media had a LOT to do with the recent rash of school shootings? Duh. Of course it did. They prey on the weak and unstable. Much like people that watch Big Brother. (Actually, I take that back. Their target audience is the stupid.) :PNow I'm stupid for being a fan of shows like Big Brother? Or am I weak minded too?

Maybe you need a holiday Ron. Or maybe I do. I could go on one with all the money I'm making selling the Big Brother feeds at the moment. ;)