Are webmaster boards dying out?

[rhetorical]

As I am sure everyone has noticed, webmaster boards just ain't what they used to be. Is this because there are fewer webmasters? Could it be because there is not enough money being made to spend time sig whoring?
Perhaps the business is just dying and the web boards are going down the same plughole. Who knows.
I have noticed that small focussed boards with good business and/or technical information have fewer posts, but the quality of the posts are much higher than "Happy Tuesday" or some other such meaningless drivel. I personally think it is the future of boards. Its like traffic. Huge amounts of traffic that doesn't convert is....well a shit pot of cheapskates. Small numbers and high conversion....the way of the future.

Anyone have an opinion on this?

[Evil Chris]

They are indeed dying. There's only 1 board that makes significant money, and even that one makes less now.

[rhetorical]

They are indeed dying. There's only 1 board that makes significant money, and even that one makes less now.
I don't think this bodes well for the affiliate marketing system.

[flip.green]

Can we really say they are dying? I think we are seeing a saturation in the market segment everyone has a board. Of course in these types of conditions smaller niche boards should do well. But seriously we cant say that this is bad news for the affiliate model if anything this should help smaller programs reach a higher quality audience for smaller amounts of cash.

However I do think the adult boards in general are badly in need of an overhaul. I mean come on Vbulletin is over a million years old my grandfather used to post on it in the morning before riding his dinosaur to the quarry where he worked at.

[Evil Chris]

I don't think this bodes well for the affiliate marketing system.How many different ways are people going to say how the affiliate marketing system is slower than it used to be? This is just one more way. The glory days are gone.

If one wants to indulge in reminiscence, there's a board for that. ;)

If one wants to bemoan the state of affairs in the industry, there's a board for that too. Might even be the same one. ;)

[rhetorical]

How many different ways are people going to say how the affiliate marketing system is slower than it used to be? This is just one more way. The glory days are gone.

If one wants to indulge in reminiscence, there's a board for that. ;)

If one wants to bemoan the state of affairs in the industry, there's a board for that too. Might even be the same one. ;)
I didn't say it was slower than it used to be. I said the future may not look to bright. It may disappear as an easy way into porn. A lot of discussion lately about the high cost of affiliate traffic.

[Evil Chris]

The future not looking bright? Ah come on... :)

This stuff moves in waves. Up, down... Things always come around eventually.
Today's webmaster board is tomorrow's newest social media platform in another form. What the form actually is? I dunno yet... let's go ahead of the curve and come up with something.

The future is so bright.... I gotta wear shades. :cool:

[Rochard]

Webmaster boards have died; Our industry has changed.

The truth is the economy has changed our business. Traffic is down, ratios are up; People are unable or unwilling to spend money on a paysite when they are concerned about making their next house payment or car payment. Affiliates are no longer making money like they were in 2005 or 2006, and have deserted the industry and gone out and got real paying jobs with guaranteed income.

Affiliates traditionally have been about half of our industry. So nearly half of our traffic based is dropping like flies, and in the mean time the general state of the economy has further reduced our sales. The two combined have reduced sales by roughly 70% across the board.

Because of this, programs are making radical changes. Some programs are letting go of their staffs like hot potatoes, and with no affiliate support nothing is getting done. I have messages into a dozen programs asking for help and no one is responding, and if I can't get what I need I can't promote you so you've just shot yourself in the foot. Then a lot of programs are no longer updating with new content; No new content and I can't feed my blog machine and I can't send you traffic. Another shot in the foot for programs.

With more and more affiliates giving up, webmaster boards are dieing.

Fuck you all, I'm moving forward. In the past two months in a row I've seen a sales increase of 10% per month. PinkStar Cash just had it's best day ever last Friday. My blog network, on a month by month, is making about 10% more than it was last month, which was up from the month prior. While everyone else has been bitching I've been building, and when this comes back I'll be able to retire. Granted, it will never be like it was four years ago, but there is still good morning to be made.

And I'll still be posting. And still posting here on XN.

[rhetorical]

This stuff moves in waves. Up, down... Things always come around eventually.
Posssibly if you can wait another five or ten years, you could be right. Who knows.

This business is still a good earner and I still do well, but not like the "good old days". But affiliates expecting updates from mainstream porn sites might be sitting on their thumbs when many of them can't afford content.
I update regularly and always will. I am usually two years ahead in content production and up to five years on one site. So it makes little difference to me one way or the other.
The new focus in this business is video and unique video. I was fortunate enough to have shot thousands of videos...not just clips...over the years on high end video cameras (mostly hd) so am turning my attention at the moment to vod. If you don't have a huge backlog of videos, it might be time to think about feathering your video nest for the future.
VOD sites are more realistic in their aff payouts as well. See the AEBN model. It could be a way forward for affiliates and content producers.

[TheLegacy]

Rochard hit the nail on the head - although boards are in a small way helping, programs need to be more creative and helpful to webmasters. Webmasters can't load up their sites with tons of programs so they need to be selective. Overall the state of the industry is only as good as the creativity of the programs. Those who maintain and continue in the old ways are struggling. Programs who ditch their reps for pay as you go commissioned people will suffer simply because webmasters are having a hard time finding those who have been around a while to trust, much less loose respect for high turn-overs. Rochard mentioned one way of getting the word out there, and there are many more, but the boards are filled now mostly with program reps told to post, surfers and fewer and fewer solid webmasters who actually know what they are doing.

[Rochard]

Rochard his the nail on the head - although boards are in a small way helping, programs need to be more creative and helpful to webmasters. Webmasters can't load up their sites with tons of programs so they need to be selective. Overall the state of the industry is only as good as the creativity of the programs. Those who maintain and continue in the old ways are struggling. Programs who ditch their reps for pay as you go commissioned people will suffer simply because webmasters are having a hard time finding those who have been around a while to trust, much less loose respect for high turn-overs. Rochard mentioned one way of getting the word out there, and there are many more, but the boards are filled now mostly with program reps told to post, surfers and fewer and fewer solid webmasters who actually know what they are doing.

My blog network pushes mostly solo girls. My biggest problem is finding content. I need massive amounts of content to keep 60 plus blogs updated daily.

Want to know who's doing it right? Spunky Cash. Every morning promptly at 9am, I get an email with their newest galleries. Sometimes I put them up ASAP, sometimes I pass on them. But I can set my fucking watch to their email, and it's official start of my day. Why can't everyone do this?

[rhetorical]

The point I am making here is that affiliate traffic is very expensive. Producing masses of product for affiliates is expensive and perhaps that is why there is seemingly less of it. Combined with poor conversion rates for most affiliates, you have to wonder if it is worth it. The most valuable traffic has always been self generated and costs a whole lot less. So, trying to be pragmatic here and not bury my head in the sand, what is the future for affiliate marketing?

[rhetorical]

No opinions? I would have thought that on a board where folks do business that at least one person might have a thought. Or is this just proof of my original question?

[Rochard]

No opinions? I would have thought that on a board where folks do business that at least one person might have a thought. Or is this just proof of my original question?

Well, that's a rhetorical question, isn't it?

[Feynman]

Hi guys! how many years haven't I logged on in here? Dunno...

Hi Chris, do you still live at the same place? Hi Rochard!

I always hated with a passion the associate programs. They are way too expensive, steal from your product innovation budget, from your product and client's experience quality budget and are generally fostering a class of businesspeople that operate on a quasi-parasitic mode, producing nothing. It came to be because those parasites highjacking search engine traffic ended up doing better than the producers themselves. Without affiliates, producers could have afforded, gradually, to sell their own stuff by themselves. But once the market gets invaded by parasites, you have no choice to adopt the same tactics. It shifts the business focus from actual value-added production to zero value-added raider-type business. Sure, the affiliate marketers are producing economic activity, but they're akin tax accountants: said economic activity would never exist without the parasites getting a free ride.

Anyhow, I delivered that rant years ago, and here I am again, skipping like an old scratched vinyl.

BTW, I still haven't bothered to sell my Angeltease.com content, I had bigger cats to skin. It's still online, but with subscription suspended, site not updated for maybe five years . I have, from the top of my head, maybe 55 photo sets and a dozen videos, a third of which were never put online. I was doing weekly updates, which was cool in those days, but way to little for today's update schedules, it seems.

[rhetorical]

Well, that's a rhetorical question, isn't it?
Well, you would be about maybe #50 or 60. Who knows? I stopped counting.

[rhetorical]

Hi guys! how many years haven't I logged on in here? Dunno...

Hi Chris, do you still live at the same place? Hi Rochard!

I always hated with a passion the associate programs. They are way too expensive, steal from your product innovation budget, from your product and client's experience quality budget and are generally fostering a class of businesspeople that operate on a quasi-parasitic mode, producing nothing. It came to be because those parasites highjacking search engine traffic ended up doing better than the producers themselves. Without affiliates, producers could have afforded, gradually, to sell their own stuff by themselves. But once the market gets invaded by parasites, you have no choice to adopt the same tactics. It shifts the business focus from actual value-added production to zero value-added raider-type business. Sure, the affiliate marketers are producing economic activity, but they're akin tax accountants: said economic activity would never exist without the parasites getting a free ride.

Anyhow, I delivered that rant years ago, and here I am again, skipping like an old scratched vinyl.

BTW, I still haven't bothered to sell my Angeltease.com content, I had bigger cats to skin. It's still online, but with subscription suspended, site not updated for maybe five years . I have, from the top of my head, maybe 55 photo sets and a dozen videos, a third of which were never put online. I was doing weekly updates, which was cool in those days, but way to little for today's update schedules, it seems.
That was an extremely well thought out rant. The best opinion I have seen yet.

[rhetorical]

............

[Evil Chris]

I just haven't had time to read through this thread. Maybe tonight I'll have some more input.

[LAJ]

They are indeed dying. There's only 1 board that makes significant money, and even that one makes less now.

There is more than one "board" that makes significant money ;)

[LAJ]

And I'll add that while posts are down everywhere... perhaps its cuz more and more people are working smarter AND harder?

[rhetorical]

There is more than one "board" that makes significant money ;)
Would one begin with an n and end with a d?

[rhetorical]

those who have been around a while to trust, much less loose respect

Wtf does that mean? See my rant about the failure of our public education system.

[LAJ]

Would one begin with an n and end with a d?

That would be a big "nunya" to you...

[Panky]

Boards who offered the points system saw a decline when they removed value for the points. More than one board stopped offering stores and misc incentives in exchange for points. The point whores moved on.

Many people have left the industry or spend less time in the industry when they sought employment offline and/or began to focus more of their attention in the online mainstream world due to adult income taking a dip or they had a hard time breaking into the online porn world, got frustrated, and left.

Some people have jobs and careers in the real world and those real world jobs and careers might be eating into their online time now more than ever.

Some people on webmaster boards were never serious and few of these people ever will be. They found something that interested them, treated it like a hobby, and spent a lot of time just goofing around on the boards. Some of these people may have grown tired, bored and moved on. Others might have experienced a dip in non-adult income and had to leave to focus on that so they can later return and indulge in their porn hobby.


Some people are feeling the financial crunch for one reason or another. One might see less activity due to more people working towards staying in the black or keep from digging themselves deeper into the red.

The dynamic of a persons home board or favorite boards may have changed and they no longer enjoy posting there as much as they once did in the past.

One board is seeing a growth spurt and increased activity because they played the game well. They saw a board or two having some drama, members getting pissed off, so they went and exploited the weakness, drawing attention to their own board in the process. Boards are ultimately a business. They can be as cut throat as one affiliate program trying to outdo another.

Some boards declined or died completely because of their own internal issues. All the behind the scenes BS that occurs from time to time. Sometimes conflicts can't be resolved or eventually the internal politics boils over to the public side of a board, potentially causing issues.

Some people make their money and then walk away. They use the online world to build bank accounts and residual income. When they reached their goals, they invest that money into something else and entertain other interests.

[rhetorical]

That would be a big "nunya" to you...
I thought we were just discussing business boards that didn't take the money and run. Anyone can rob and steal and make money.

[Evil Chris]

a lot of people do just that with little concern of the mess they're leaving in their wake

[Evil Chris]

Boards who offered the points system saw a decline when they removed value for the points. More than one board stopped offering stores and misc incentives in exchange for points. The point whores moved on.

Many people have left the industry or spend less time in the industry when they sought employment offline and/or began to focus more of their attention in the online mainstream world due to adult income taking a dip or they had a hard time breaking into the online porn world, got frustrated, and left.

Some people have jobs and careers in the real world and those real world jobs and careers might be eating into their online time now more than ever.

Some people on webmaster boards were never serious and few of these people ever will be. They found something that interested them, treated it like a hobby, and spent a lot of time just goofing around on the boards. Some of these people may have grown tired, bored and moved on. Others might have experienced a dip in non-adult income and had to leave to focus on that so they can later return and indulge in their porn hobby.


Some people are feeling the financial crunch for one reason or another. One might see less activity due to more people working towards staying in the black or keep from digging themselves deeper into the red.

The dynamic of a persons home board or favorite boards may have changed and they no longer enjoy posting there as much as they once did in the past.

One board is seeing a growth spurt and increased activity because they played the game well. They saw a board or two having some drama, members getting pissed off, so they went and exploited the weakness, drawing attention to their own board in the process. Boards are ultimately a business. They can be as cut throat as one affiliate program trying to outdo another.

Some boards declined or died completely because of their own internal issues. All the behind the scenes BS that occurs from time to time. Sometimes conflicts can't be resolved or eventually the internal politics boils over to the public side of a board, potentially causing issues.

Some people make their money and then walk away. They use the online world to build bank accounts and residual income. When they reached their goals, they invest that money into something else and entertain other interests. Good post!

[rhetorical]

Good post!
very good post. I am enjoying this thread

[Evil Chris]

Just to add to what Panky posted, I did install VBCredits to XNations, but without a defined plan in mind. You can see "xBucks" in the left column. I wasn't (and am still) sure what or where I was going with this.

Obviously, the days of remunerating webmasters for posting are gone, and I feel that this system only brings out the worst kind of posts anyway. So I'm still keeping my options open for how I can apply this type of credits system.

[Rochard]

Boards who offered the points system saw a decline when they removed value for the points. More than one board stopped offering stores and misc incentives in exchange for points. The point whores moved on.

Many people have left the industry or spend less time in the industry when they sought employment offline and/or began to focus more of their attention in the online mainstream world due to adult income taking a dip or they had a hard time breaking into the online porn world, got frustrated, and left.

Some people have jobs and careers in the real world and those real world jobs and careers might be eating into their online time now more than ever.

Some people on webmaster boards were never serious and few of these people ever will be. They found something that interested them, treated it like a hobby, and spent a lot of time just goofing around on the boards. Some of these people may have grown tired, bored and moved on. Others might have experienced a dip in non-adult income and had to leave to focus on that so they can later return and indulge in their porn hobby.


Some people are feeling the financial crunch for one reason or another. One might see less activity due to more people working towards staying in the black or keep from digging themselves deeper into the red.

The dynamic of a persons home board or favorite boards may have changed and they no longer enjoy posting there as much as they once did in the past.

One board is seeing a growth spurt and increased activity because they played the game well. They saw a board or two having some drama, members getting pissed off, so they went and exploited the weakness, drawing attention to their own board in the process. Boards are ultimately a business. They can be as cut throat as one affiliate program trying to outdo another.

Some boards declined or died completely because of their own internal issues. All the behind the scenes BS that occurs from time to time. Sometimes conflicts can't be resolved or eventually the internal politics boils over to the public side of a board, potentially causing issues.

Some people make their money and then walk away. They use the online world to build bank accounts and residual income. When they reached their goals, they invest that money into something else and entertain other interests.

This is a most interesting post. I've never posted on a board because I was hoping to get paid for it, and I've never got dime from any board for posting (although one board did send me a gift last year).

I think such boards bring out the worse in posters.

Besides, I'm not desperate to the point where I need to make an extra $40 a month for posting on a board.

[Rochard]

While I'm at it, I post here mostly because I like Evil Chris, wish to support him, and think he's really super smart about the industry. Also, I post here because it's both fun and productive to be here.

[TheEnforcer]

Dying? Maybe not dying.. but most certainly changing. It seems to me the adult biz has become way too corrosive and we're paying for it. I see a number of mainstream webmaster boards that are thriving in a big way and and very busy an managing to still talk a lot of business.

[rhetorical]

This is a most interesting post. I've never posted on a board because I was hoping to get paid for it, and I've never got dime from any board for posting (although one board did send me a gift last year).

I think such boards bring out the worse in posters.

Besides, I'm not desperate to the point where I need to make an extra $40 a month for posting on a board.
Wow, you can make that much?

[Evil Chris]

While I'm at it, I post here mostly because I like Evil Chris, wish to support him, and think he's really super smart about the industry. Also, I post here because it's both fun and productive to be here.Thanks mang! :worthy:

About the $40 thing... I'm with you. If I get paid by any board at all, it's like a surprise to me. I'm not one ot wrack up a ton of posts anywhere. I was a little taken aback with all the broohaha about the points system being revoked at Netpond, for example. I had a ton of points accumulated, but I had no idea what to do with them.

[rhetorical]

Thanks mang! :worthy:

About the $40 thing... I'm with you. If I get paid by any board at all, it's like a surprise to me. I'm not one ot wrack up a ton of posts anywhere. I was a little taken aback with all the broohaha about the points system being revoked at Netpond, for example. I had a ton of points accumulated, but I had no idea what to do with them.
People were using their points as currency for services. Management just cancelled them and flew the coop leaving people with a bunch of worthless currency. Whatever you think of the value of these points, these folks worked for them and then had them stolen. There were other problems as well. Funny thing is, no one has made a big deal out of the principals doing a runner. I think because they were bros.

[Evil Chris]

This "bro" thing is out of control. It's an insecurity issue for people who don't feel they belong.

[Wolf]

Funny thing is, no one has made a big deal out of the principals doing a runner. I think because they were bros.

Actually, there were many complaints from many voices. Granted, many still act like nothing bad happened, also.

[rhetorical]

Actually, there were many complaints from many voices. Granted, many still act like nothing bad happened, also.
That is what amazes me. Guys get ripped off and don't walk. Someone rips me off, I never do business with them or their associates....ever. That just seems like common sense. And the interesting thing is no one has ever defended them and people still keep buying advertising from them. That is a symptom of how greedy this business is. Anything for a buck. But the problem is, that in that case its anything for a nickel. In the long run, that attitude is shooting us all in our collective feet. One big wrong move at gfy and it spawns huge outcry. Over at NP, a bunch of whining and the same folks that decry the state of our business still work there taking money. That is wrong.
Dig this....a quote from NP shitlist forum.....

Beware of the following Individual as he is not to be trusted.
He has abused the goodwill of our community and he may do the same to you.

[Panky]

At first, it really did surprise me a bit that people were so loyal. People were getting blatantly used and abused, but they still continued to post and support the forum. They are loyal to their home board. The place they feel most comfortable, as if they owe the board something. It's almost like the mentality when a victim begins to become attached to their captor or abuser. Some members are insecure about branching out and exploring new boards to participate on because that would mean they would have to leave their comfort zone. That's not an easy thing to do for many people.

The veterans began to leave one by one, though it took quite some time. They held on to the memory of what the place used to be. The place they were apart of and helped build. The place they once learned from.

Some people held on because they couldn't fathom that Meat & Aga could be involved in such things and that they would make things right in the end. That it had to be some outside force preventing them from paying their affiliates. Those two themselves would never do such a thing to their affiliates or board members.

Sleazy will never fully leave because that is all he knows. He is somebody there. He has power and control, the feeling of importance. None of the newcomers and few of the loyalists are going to question him. Many don't know enough to question him on anything he tries to teach. They hang on his every word. Others like him because he once helped them and made them feel comfortable when they were fumbling around, trying to gain sure footing before taking the first step. IF Sleazy tries to rebuild somewhere else, he'll get eaten alive. He'll be the low man on the totem pole. He doesn't have thick enough skin to survive the critics.

The advertisers know that NP has a loyal following. They will also see a steady flow of new arrivals because Netpond has a strong foundation that spreads far and wide across the wild wild web. They could care less about the problems of NPC cash because they have a fresh set of eyeballs looking at them who have no clue, nor care, what went on in the past.

NP & NPC are messed up, but they sure as hell knew what they were doing when building a community, sucking people in, and ensuring a fresh supply of newcomers. They still have a base of loyal members, even if it appears the blind are leading the blind, and the number of blindly loyal will continue to grow bit by bit.




People can protest all they want about not doing business with such an such a company or individual. A good percentage of those who do all the ranting and raving, protesting as loud as they can to anyone who will listen, never pull links or stop promoting in one form or another. They just spout off because they want to be liked. What one does and says in public is often very different when they are behind closed doors.

Greed fuels the affiliate. Sponsors know it. That is why you see the $100 bonus days, $30-$40 PPS on a $1.00 trial, and the likes. Many affiliates won't even consider a program unless it has a PPS option.

Sponsors, in general, are just as greedy. Some will do anything they can to make that extra buck whether it is a good long term strategy or not. It's about the quick buck. Create creative ways to screw the affiliate and surfer, grab as much as you can before anyone notices.

The "bro" club mentality too is ridiculous. We are supposed to be grown adults, yet few seem to be able to stand on their own and go by what their "gut" tells them is the right thing to do. God forbid people have an opinion of their own, dare to go against the grain, and stand on your own two feet.

[rhetorical]

It would be like keeping a job with Bernie Madoff and still sending him business. In any other industry, most of those involved would face charges. They are still putting money in the pockets of those who have left the freeking country. My fav is the story everyone told about the "lawsuit" and why they should all help to pay to fight it.

[Wolf]

God forbid people have an opinion of their own, dare to go against the grain, and stand on your own two feet.



Sometimes you have to buck the system or lose your integrity. If you have any to lose.

Of course, as a little fish in the biz it's easy for me to say that.

[Ronaldo]

Obviously, the days of remunerating webmasters for posting are gone, and I feel that this system only brings out the worst kind of posts anyway.

I've always been HALF joking when I say that if boards had implemented a pay per WORD or MINIMUM posting before being paid, they'd have been a lot better off.

With the exception of mocking people, I can't think of a single time I EVER posted a two word response in a thread. If I didn't have something relevant to say, I wouldn't waste my time.

Look at Panky's posts in this thread. Posts like THAT should be rewarded. Posts of "I'd hit it", "She look good", or " ;) " SHOULDN'T be rewarded, but they were and THAT was part of the problem.

[Evil Chris]

Ron... right, so a post like "Go Leafs Go" despite having great significance, shouldn't be rewarded, but probably was anyway.

;)

[Ronaldo]

Ron... right, so a post like "Go Leafs Go" despite having great significance, shouldn't be rewarded, but probably was anyway.

;)

No, posts like that shouldn't be rewarded. In fact I'll take it a step further. Posts like that should not only NOT be rewarded, but the poster should LOSE points that you were already rewarded WITH...just for their stupidity. :)

[Cyndalie]

They way I see it, and I met most of you back on the Ynot boards back in the late nineties, you post to either learn, find new business, or socialize online with colleagues you like.

As we get older we are less interested in coaching newbies, new business is found in upper management levels - and rarely from newbies, reps, or lone webamsters on boards, and alot of us have dropped out , separated paths, focus on work more and post less, see posting as a liability as the number of trolls rise, or just don't see the ROI in any sense anymore.

It's harder to find quality communities to retain your interest. Like Rochard I like to combine several of these factors and support the people and places I like.