Montreal Cybernet [Archive]

Mister X

06-07-2003, 02:07 PM

The following was written by me at the request of my boss Daniel. But I will say that I pretty much agree with it all.

We would like to make very plain our extreme displeasure with the Montreal Cybernet show organizers. Not only do we feel that we did not get our money's worth, we feel like we were actually ripped off.

To charge an amount like $125 USD for a show with no booths or significant displays and only entry level seminars is quite ridiculous. Paying for the privilege of standing around in the "networking area" for a while wondering who all these people were and drinking over-priced beer was not only unrewarding from a business standpoint, it was also extremely frustrating.

Surely there were people at the show that we would have been very interested in talking to. In fact we went there planning to talk to some people about specific things. And I'm sure that the people we wanted to talk to were there somewhere. But we really had no way of knowing who they were, or finding them if we did know. The lack of even the inclusion of a company name on badges meant that it was reduced to asking people who they worked for and what they did.

From the standpoint of a local Montreal business the show was actually embarrassing. We had clients who were quite satisfied with us and what we provided them with but they expressed their disappointment with the whole experience of coming to Montreal for Cybernet. Almost certainly these people will not be back next year. A tradeshow that hurts business instead of helping it is worse than useless.

I think I can speak for all Montreal industry people in saying that we are very proud of our city. Which is why this show was such a terrible disappointment for us. People will be going home thinking that perhaps Montreal is a good place to party, and a beautiful city. But too many of them will be thinking that it's an unrewarding place to do business.

Perhaps Montreal should do what the Toronto industry did and organize our own tradeshow. People that actually care about business in this city might do a better job than someone with a "take the money and run" attitude.

Probably there are going to be a lot of people who disagree.

But I have to say that the format of the show really sucked for those of us who don't already know most of the attendees from previous shows and meetings. I was disappointed enough that I decided not to even bother with going back today and going on the Webmaster tour, which I was quite looking forward to. All in all it was a more of a frustrating experience than a rewarding one. Maybe I had unrealistic expectations for my first trade show. But I doubt it.

Digital Shawn

06-07-2003, 04:09 PM

the following has been posted by me:

dude, what expo was you at?
this expo fuckin rocks, and if it didnt appear to be feasiable for you or your business, perhaps its best to find a different industry.

the networking at this expo is beyond wonderful, the contacts and info I have obtained here (as I sit in the networking bar right this second and write this) has well paid for this trip, and then some.

Your point of view as to not being able to "meet" the people you desired to get the info you needed is crap. you walk up and meet people and then ask for other people that may have your needed info.

again, your opinion of this expo is absurd. if it didnt work for you, again, you did everything wrong.

blame yourself, not the expo. being anti-social will get you no where at these type of events!:bonk:

12clicks

06-07-2003, 04:37 PM

Assclown, This has been one of the best meetings I've been to.
I really can't imagine how you could continually be out of the action.
I slept most of the days away and still met everyone in the hotel.

Your post is silly and way off base.

Mister X

06-07-2003, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by Digital Shawn
the following has been posted by me:

dude, what expo was you at?
this expo fuckin rocks, and if it didnt appear to be feasiable for you or your business, perhaps its best to find a different industry.

the networking at this expo is beyond wonderful, the contacts and info I have obtained here (as I sit in the networking bar right this second and write this) has well paid for this trip, and then some.

Your point of view as to not being able to "meet" the people you desired to get the info you needed is crap. you walk up and meet people and then ask for other people that may have your needed info.

again, your opinion of this expo is absurd. if it didnt work for you, again, you did everything wrong.

blame yourself, not the expo. being anti-social will get you no where at these type of events!:bonk:

As I said. A lot of people will probably disagree with what I wrote. If it was worthwhile for you then great. More power to ya. Oh... since you seem to think it's okay to be insulting... Fuck off! Lol.

Mister X

06-07-2003, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by 12clicks
Assclown, This has been one of the best meetings I've been to.
I really can't imagine how you could continually be out of the action.
I slept most of the days away and still met everyone in the hotel.

Your post is silly and way off base. Since you are one of the people that already knows everyone else your opinion is hardly relevant to the points I raised. And one of the reasons that I thought it sucked is because of just what you said you did. Slept most of the days away and didn't put in much time at the actual show. An awful lot of people seemed to be following the same pattern. Have a nice day.

NetRodent

06-07-2003, 09:36 PM

You make a couple of valid points:

1) Lack of company names on badges

2) Over priced drinks

Otherwise I disagree with you. I am the worst person in the world when it comes to walking up to someone I don't know and introducing myself. Even still I actually met far more people here than at Internext or previous Cybernets. You may shake a lot of hands at Internext but do you actually have a chance to get to know the person?

The seminars at this were as informative as any of the other shows. Its a given fact that seminars are geared mainly towards newbies and nobody is going to share any advanced "secrets". YNOT's seminars were better than in past years because they schedualed small group follow up time each after with their speakers.

I don't believe we met which is odd considering we're based in Montreal and were always hanging around the floor.

Evil Chris

06-07-2003, 10:27 PM

There is always one in the crowd that is impossible to please.

Mister X, your boss Daniel is someone I have never met, and I doubt I will ever meet him unless I am wearing a show-badge with my name, my company name, my address, my social insurance number.. etc..

Sounds like someone doesn't know how to network with others in this business. Get Daniel some "Hello my name is... " badges for future conferences. Maybe he'll start to get known for that.

Otherwise, you guys will just have to step up to people and say hello on your own like the rest of us do.

DaveKnell

06-07-2003, 10:57 PM

Just to add my tuppence-worth: I thought the seminars were great - at least, the ones I went to were. And the guy I came over with - Bijan - who joined us a few weeks ago didn't seem to have any trouble at all finding key people to talk to, making contacts, etc. AND there's a cartoon featuring the show on the front page of the newspaper this morning :-)

I will agree, though, that Montreal's a great city. The old bit's charming, and going out bar-hopping and then clubbing on Saint Laurent last night was top. But it was also a good place to do business.

--Dave

Carrie

06-07-2003, 11:49 PM

Daniel's dissatisfaction with the convention itself, and the manner in which he chose to communicate it, tells me volumes about him.

First the letter itself. He can't write it himself, he has someone else write it for him.

He complains about the lack of information on badges, and makes the point that in a room full of people, he didn't know who anyone was.

He is unhappy with the seminars, calling them entry-level, as if they, too, did not provide enough information for him.

He has many negative adjectives in which to describe the show - which were written by someone else at his request - and then tries to claim that he is speaking for all of the Montreal webmasters in saying what a disappointment the show is.

And in the end, he suggests that "we" should organize a show, rather than stepping up and saying that "he" will organize a show.

Does anyone else notice the pattern here?
Daniel reminds me of the newbies who see the entire world being offered to them, and complain that it's not enough. They have tutorials, they have pre-made galleries, pre-made free sites, unlimited bandwidth, instant plug-in TGPs, free content, free programs to resize the content, free programs to make any galleries or sites should they ever get the urge to do something for themselves... and still it's not enough. They want someone else to do the work for them - and you, Mister X, just perpetuated Daniel's belief that he is entitled to this type of treatment by writing the letter *for* him and posting it *for* him.

Daniel, business and life are all about opportunities. Success depends on what you do with those opportunities. It is not the job of the show promoters to ensure that you meet the people you wanted to meet. Had you really wanted to do that, you would have contacted them before the show and cemented times upon which you would meet and talk. Plenty of sufficient "warning time" was given before the show to do this.

It's not the job of the show promoters to make sure that you know who everyone works for - it is your job to introduce yourself to people and network. Ample space was given to everyone equally with a large room for networking with both "loud" and "quiet" spots and plenty of tables around which to gather. The hotel bar/restaurant downstairs also provides a fantastic networking area, as it is the first place most folks go to after getting off of the elevator to see who else might be there.

The seminars were publicized beforehand - both what the subject would be and who the speakers would be. It is not the speakers' job to telepathically know what level your "knowledge" is at and adress it specifically, nor is it the speakers' job to telepathically know every question you may have wanted answered. It is your job to ask questions you want answered and to ask for certain areas to be addressed if you feel they're not getting enough attention.

And although you may feel differently, it is not Mister X's job to put himself in front of the flames to voice YOUR discontent. In having him do this, you have not only generated a healthy disrespect for the way you choose to do business (because this is business), but also put Mister X's own reputation and good standing at risk. When you are dissatisfied with something, it is YOUR job to tell people about your opinions.

This is not kindergarten. No one is going to take your hand and show you how to use that crayon. Likewise, I doubt that any attempt by Montreal webmasters to organize their own show will include you, since you seemingly can't be bothered to make any type of effort on your own behalf - yet you expect and call for others to do what you yourself won't do.

I respectfully suggest that this is not the business for you, and that perhaps you would be better suited in a line of work where self-starters have already paved the path and now write best-selling "How To" books that clearly outline the steps that you should take to make money and even offer consulting companies who will gladly empty your wallet for the privilege of doing everything for you.

I also find it interesting that you mention that you are a Montreal-based business, but glaringly omit the name of your company, what it does, or what you do. Hmm, exactly what you blast the convention for not doing with its lack of company info on the name badges.
Unlike yourself, I'll step up to the plate and ask - what is it that you do? What is your company? What can you provide that may be of interest to me?

While I am interested in the answers, you can rest assured that I am only asking so that I can make note of it in my little book where I write down companies and people to never do business with. I prefer to align my business with other folks who work hard, make the extra effort, and who take action rather than whining that not enough is being done.

Magnus3x

06-08-2003, 05:54 AM

Networking:

You get back what you put in

You GAIN from your efforts

In a packed room everyone is a potential client, every client a potential sale, every sale is another potential sale and so on..word of mouth speaks volumes and you will get higher returns than any other form of advertising.

Everyone is there for the same reason, to meet and greet with like minded individuals in the same industry!

If it's 5 people or 500 people..WOW them with your positives and make the best first impression you possibly can.

McAttack

06-08-2003, 12:18 PM

The company names on the badges would be great, sure. That's about as far as I'll go in agreeing with you.

If you wanted face time with specific people, then be responsible for your own business and schedule appointments. I did. I missed a bunch of partys and seminars cause I went out with certain people that I needed to talk to. Some were planned in advance, some were last minute deals. If you already know WHO you're looking for, how can it hard to find them? People don't hide in this industry. If you wanted to talk to let's say Karl from PrivateFeeds, you could've emailed him before hand, send an email to the webmaster email address if you couldn't find any contact info anywhere and try to set something up. anything.

The price. I come from the Gaming industry as a background. Our big expo is E3 (http://www.e3expo.com) which is HUGE. And for the price of $550, you get passes to seminars and the show. No drinks. No food. I say go work in mainstream. $125 is a good price and if you find that steep, and feel like you can't make that money back during the show in contacts, I feel real sorry for you guys. We're not a big company, we're very small, but we had to make this show. It's the cost of business. As a local company, you didn't have to pay for a hotel, for a flight, none of that stuff.

The seminars. Wow. ok. Did you expect everybody to come up there and say "Ok, this is how you can make $3M in 1 year" and break down a business plan for you? They're all introductory and personally, I'm amazed Mark Tiarra from LUMYR gave THAT much information.

I say sharpen your networking skills. I always go into trade shows with a base idea of what we're looking for. What is it that I need to find? Do I need a live feed? fresh content? traffic? SEO? whatever my real major goal is. And usually I find it by talking to people that I never met.

Raven

06-08-2003, 12:47 PM

I've only been to one show that didn't deliver what we expected...and that was the fault of the hotel, not the event people. Even still, with very few in attendance, an opportunity to speak with the other sponsors presented itself and I walked away with much that was positive. As a matter of fact, it ended up being money worth spending due to the business it eventually generated and the friends I made.

The old saying about making lemonade out of lemons is apt.

Seems to me....without booths, there's even more of an opportunity to network, which is largely what these shows are about.

I've been talking to Tev from Erotica Cash on a daily basis. We're married, so I've attended the show vicariously through him......

Sounds to me like he had a blast and he's a fairly shy kind of guy. Every time he called, he told me about yet another webmaster he's met...some he knew before from other shows and some he's never met before. I'm sure there are some future deals in the works...

Did he meet everybody? I doubt it. But, that's the beauty of conferences. The one you missed this time is the one you meet next time around.

I went to the Phoenix Forum and met huge amounts of people I had never met before...names I've seen on boards...some new whose names I had not heard before.

Regardless of what information is placed on badges, it's up to us to approach somebody and stick out our hands and say "Hi. My name is...what's yours? For whom do you work?"

-=HUNGRYMAN=-

06-08-2003, 01:12 PM

Stu :

I am good friends with you and don't want this to jeapordize our friendship, but I feel Daniel is way outta line here ...

No show floor was a bit disappointing, and I agree that company names on the badges (mine was ... :eek: ) would benefit everybody ... but many PPL also took a pen and added it themselves too

IMHO ... typing up the same letter as above, ver baitem, and distributing a few hundred copies of it at Cathedral was a very wrong way of handling his displeasure with the show ... whether his OPINIONS are valid or not, you do not go about voicing them in the manner that he did ...

I will say, that for me personally this show was very worthwile. I met ALOT of people I had never met before, as well as catching up with several PPL I already knew ..

Mister X

06-08-2003, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by Evil Chris
There is always one in the crowd that is impossible to please.

Mister X, your boss Daniel is someone I have never met, and I doubt I will ever meet him unless I am wearing a show-badge with my name, my company name, my address, my social insurance number.. etc..

Sounds like someone doesn't know how to network with others in this business. Get Daniel some "Hello my name is... " badges for future conferences. Maybe he'll start to get known for that.

Otherwise, you guys will just have to step up to people and say hello on your own like the rest of us do. Respectfully sir ... You seem to show a bit of an insulting attitude there. And I'll point out that you are certainly one of the ones who already knew a pretty large amount of the attendees before the show. Good day to you sir.

People are entitled to their opinions. I really don't understand why people who simply attend such an event think they have to gang up and spank anybody who says anything against it. It's an old boys club mentality that I personally find to be repugnant. There has been a significant amount of feedback on Mr. Perrault's letter to Tradeshow Productions. And it was overwhelmingly positive. Of course that was feedback from their private faces. Their public faces will likely disagree or have no comment.

A certain segment of this industry seems to find pleasure in thinking of themselves as elite and thinks of anyone who doesn't have a successful program as being beneath them. Well I have news for a lot of these people. There is a whole wide world out there that could care less. Mr. Daniel Perrault has a very successful business and really has no need of anything from anybody with an attitude like that. His client list reads like a who's who of the porn industry. There is a whole big sucessful industry out there made up of people who don't have much of anything to do with the internet. In case you hadn't noticed.

I won't say that the show was a total disappointment. I personally found the seminars to be quite good and wish that I had been able to attend a couple more of them. But I have to point out that the "organizers" of this show relied mainly on local Montreal people and YNOT to do the organizing of this aspect of the show. And I did manage to make a couple of contacts that might prove to be fruitful in the future. But it certainly would have been easier to do that with a better organized show. Quite honestly if I was someone who had paid a significant amount of money to sponsor this show I would be thinking I should have at least got a table where I could have an employee hand out some literature for my cash.

Possibly if I had been able to attend the show from the beginning I would have had a more rewarding experience. Unfortunately I missed the preparty due to unforseen circumstances and I was busy on Thursday. Personally I would like to point out that Mr. Perrault had absolutely nothing bad to say about the attendees of the show in his letter to Tradeshow Productions. The letter was entirely aimed at the organizers. Some of you seem to have failed to make this distinction. And it was indeed a letter that was sent to Tradeshow Productions and then made public at the behest of Mr. Perrault.

Hungryman! I don't give a damn if you disagree with me or Daniel dude. I'm not the kind of person that thinks anybody who disagrees with them is "bad", lol. In fact if it had been left up to me I would have kept my mouth shut on the whole issue. But I don't sign the cheques, hehehe. Actually I didn't even know that copies of the letter were handed out. And I'm man enough to admit that I should have gone on the Webmaster Tour despite what I felt about the show itself. I think Dugmor! did a simply awesome job of organizing that whole thing. The fact that I knew what was coming might have dampened my enthusiasm just a tad, hehehe.

McAttack! The fact is that I did NOT know all the people I wanted to meet ahead of time. Isn't the whole point of a convention to meet new contacts? We did indeed have meetings, etc. booked ahead of time. But that isn't everything. The seminars: Nothing was said about the quality of the seminars. Indeed I'm kicking myself for missing Mark Tiarra. The fact that most seminars were entry level is not inherently bad. But I do think that the network area and seminars were not exactly a great return on investment for what Tradeshow Productions charged attendees. Especially when they were mainly organized by local people and YNOT.

Carrie! I will point out that Daniel had me write the letter because he simply wanted it to be understandable and clear and English is not his first language. As far as volunteering to organize a show.... it hasn't been ruled out. And if others were interested in doing it then certainly Eromodel would be interested in contributing. Your other points... I have no comment. Lol.

In closing I will point out that the large majority of positive comments about this show were about the parties and the great people who attended the show. I am certain that the parties were indeed great and I know that the attendees were great. But the parties had very little or no input from the show organizers. They weren't actually "part" of the show. In my honest opinion it seems that, except for booking the hotel and delegating tasks to other people, Tradeshow Productions did little or nothing to earn what they charged people. Which is what that letter is all about. Tradeshow Productions organized this show for ONE reason. To make money. I am indeed certain that a show organized by a different organization would be much more successful and rewarding. And I will point out that in many of the replies in this thread that are contrary to the original post, people said they agreed with something BUT it was a great show anyway.

I will repeat myself a little to make sure that this point is understood. The contents of the letter I posted here were IN NO WAY directed at the attendees of the show or those who hosted parties or spent their time to give the seminars. It's contents were 100% directed at Tradeshow Productions. It is Mr. Perrault's belief, and I happen to share it, that the success of the show was in spite of the efforts of Tradeshow Productions and not because of them.

I see absolutely no need to start personally insulting someone over their opinions. And those of you that feel it is appropriate behaviour to do so... I really don't care what you do anyway. Those of you that happen to agree with one point or another that was made but don't voice your opinion... that is indeed your prerogative and I respect it.

I'm not interested in getting into a pissing contest on the whole issue(and I still have to try and make a living in this industry) so I'll limit my replies to this thread to this message only and that will be the end as far as I'm concerned. Those of you who visited our fair city... I wish you a safe and happy return to home turf. And I hope you will have fond and happy memories of the trip!

Good day to you all.

Mister X

06-08-2003, 09:04 PM

Holy shit! That was a freakin' novel! ::-|

Crak_JMan

06-08-2003, 09:11 PM

Wake the fuck up bro, this is the ADULT industry.

Crak_JMan

06-08-2003, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by Mister X
Holy shit! That was a freakin' novel! ::-|

I would called this bowring tabloid bullshit more then a novel. Hope you don't plan on becoming a writer.

12clicks

06-08-2003, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by JMan
I would called this bowring tabloid bullshit more then a novel. Hope you don't plan on becoming a writer.
No, you putting me in a headlock and kneeing me in the nuts was tabloid bullshit.;)

Crak_JMan

06-08-2003, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by 12clicks
No, you putting me in a headlock and kneeing me in the nuts was tabloid bullshit.;)

HAHAHAHA,

Shows all the love i have for you bro ;-)

Nice meeting with you Ron and damn you look sexy without the moustache taba.....

Oh and btw Eric as a big fat ass

LAJ

06-09-2003, 01:40 PM

All I have to say is, what a fuckin awesome show. I'll be buried with follow up and getting caught up all week, but for now, I just want to say Chris and Stephanie... very sorry for missing our meeting on Sat :((( My apologies... however, I still plan to move forward with what we had discussed previously, and will hit you up when things are moving forward on it over here. :D

sherie

06-09-2003, 02:56 PM

We were a tad bit shocked that there was no show room floor. However, it was great for business and meeting new people. As for the company name on the badge, all one had to do was put it on there while registering. Sherie-Porn Profit tada ;)

Sorry that you found it to be more money and not worth your while, but these things happen.

IMO this was a kick ass show and I had a great time!

Evil Chris

06-09-2003, 03:12 PM

Mister X, not an insulting attitude. No. Somewhat sarcastic I will admit to, but not insulting.

Don't forget that these shows spawn business at many levels.
For instance, I may meet someone very briefly during this show, and end up doing a follow-up upon my return home and strike up a good business relationship. All based on a chance meeting in the hallway, perhaps.

The parties may not have been put on by TPI, however the sponsors of those parties were given the opportunity to do so by TPI. No show, no parties. I would be curious to know if Daniel had attended many other adult internet tradeshows, or if he has attended any at all. The inter-personal networking that I witnessed (and participated in) during Cybernetexpo was no different than any AVN show I have ever attended. In fact, I got more of it done here in Montreal at a scaled down show than I do at the huge AVN shows.

Digital Shawn

06-09-2003, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by Mister X
As I said. A lot of people will probably disagree with what I wrote. If it was worthwhile for you then great. More power to ya. Oh... since you seem to think it's okay to be insulting... Fuck off! Lol.

Oh did that make your cry? I cannot seem to find where I was being "insulting" aside from stating the obvious. Its a shame your wasnt able to meet people such as myself while at the show, but seems as if you and your boss needed to be babysat, and I, unfortantely, dont hang round babysitters.

As far as telling me to "Fuck Off", I sure hope and pray I do get to meet with you in the future, and doing a little of your negatory networking, and perhaps solve your problems :D

JFK

06-09-2003, 04:25 PM

I see Some of you were dissapointed at not seeing the same old booth set up! Get used to it !! Its the new lean and mean model of a show , as we have seen in Phoenix. No show floor, people get together for seminars and to network. As far as the seminars and round table discussions at this show, they were well organised, and professionaly presented. You do not need a show floor to do business! More business gets done at these events at parties, and informal settings, then anywhere else. Everyone who was a registered attendee, got a Badge with a name and firm on it. Did you guys pay to get in ? The organiser cant make people wear them at all times.The events are what you make of them, a lot of wms had a great show meeting others and doing business. You have to get out and greet people , approach them they dont bite. The distribution of the letter at the Cathedral was an underhanded move on part of the letter writer.The writer of the same, dosent have the balls even to post on this board, but has an employee take the heat for it. Shows Character dosent it ! Just my 2 cents worth flame away if you must.

Crak_JMan

06-09-2003, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by JFK
I see Some of you were dissapointed at not seeing the same old booth set up! Get used to it !! Its the new lean and mean model of a show , as we have seen in Phoenix. No show floor, people get together for seminars and to network. As far as the seminars and round table discussions at this show, they were well organised, and professionaly presented. You do not need a show floor to do business! More business gets done at these events at parties, and informal settings, then anywhere else. Everyone who was a registered attendee, got a Badge with a name and firm on it. Did you guys pay to get in ? The organiser cant make people wear them at all times.The events are what you make of them, a lot of wms had a great show meeting others and doing business. You have to get out and greet people , approach them they dont bite. The distribution of the letter at the Cathedral was an underhanded move on part of the letter writer.The writer of the same, dosent have the balls even to post on this board, but has an employee take the heat for it. Shows Character dosent it ! Just my 2 cents worth flame away if you must.

Amen Brother!!!

Can't wait to see your pics and also I have something for you please had me to your ICQ 124588247

JFK

06-09-2003, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by JMan
Amen Brother!!!

Can't wait to see your pics and also I have something for you please had me to your ICQ 124588247

JMan check your ICQ

LadyMischief

06-09-2003, 08:38 PM

I hadn't been to any of the shows, I didn't know anyone beforehand, and I did some amazing networking. You get from the shows what you put into them. How fucking hard is it to walk up to someone and introduce yourself? Cripes. Epitome of laziness. and if you are expecting cheap drinks in a four star hotel in a port town in the middle of touristland, you're smoking too much crack.

Tell your boss to write the letter himself next time.

LadyMischief

06-09-2003, 08:45 PM

RawAlex

06-09-2003, 08:59 PM

Okay, I am biased, so any comments I make about the show are tinged with the fact that Fay and Dave are personal friends, and it was my honor and pleasure to help make the Montreal show all work out.

Rather than talk about THIS show, let's just talk about shows in general (any industry):

You go to a show for the first time, you don't know anyone. You mingle in the crowd, and end up talking to some people who maybe work the same sorts of things you do. They have other people come up to them, and you get introduced. You explain the type of products you handle, the type of work you do, etc, and listen to everything you can find out about them. Your business brain kicks in an tries to find ways that you can work together, do buisness, make money.

Unless you are super lucky, you cannot have a personal trade show sherpa lead you around by the hand and make you make business.

As for CybernetExpo Montreal, $150 is too expensive? If you couldn't find $150 worth of value between the seminars, the bar areas, and the social events (thanks to all the great sponsors and companies for doing that stuff!), then you certainly are not only in the wrong business, but you are never going to make it in any business that requires even 1% social skills.

I am not the most social person. I spent most of the show making sure that everything was working, and that everyone was around, etc. I am sure that I still managed to squeeze at least $150 out of it.

Drnks too expensive? Hmm... you better not go to Miami, you are in for a shock - you will easily go through $12-$14 CANADIAN for a drink at the hotel. You can buy a round for a few people and easily go through a hundred bucks without a breath... and that is if you only have a few friends!

More over, if you had the balls and the contacts to be able to distribute these letters at the Cathedral party, I am sure that you know enough people to be able to meet new people and make some money.

I wish you luck in attempting a show of your own. Ask the people who have attempted to do webmaster get-togethers and shows in the past in Canada, you will learn that it isn't just about posting up a time and place - and that $150 is nothing compared to the effort required to make it go.

Alex

LadyMischief

06-09-2003, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by RawAlex
Okay, I am biased, so any comments I make about the show are tinged with the fact that Fay and Dave are personal friends, and it was my honor and pleasure to help make the Montreal show all work out.

Rather than talk about THIS show, let's just talk about shows in general (any industry):

You go to a show for the first time, you don't know anyone. You mingle in the crowd, and end up talking to some people who maybe work the same sorts of things you do. They have other people come up to them, and you get introduced. You explain the type of products you handle, the type of work you do, etc, and listen to everything you can find out about them. Your business brain kicks in an tries to find ways that you can work together, do buisness, make money.

Unless you are super lucky, you cannot have a personal trade show sherpa lead you around by the hand and make you make business.

As for CybernetExpo Montreal, $150 is too expensive? If you couldn't find $150 worth of value between the seminars, the bar areas, and the social events (thanks to all the great sponsors and companies for doing that stuff!), then you certainly are not only in the wrong business, but you are never going to make it in any business that requires even 1% social skills.

I am not the most social person. I spent most of the show making sure that everything was working, and that everyone was around, etc. I am sure that I still managed to squeeze at least $150 out of it.

Drnks too expensive? Hmm... you better not go to Miami, you are in for a shock - you will easily go through $12-$14 CANADIAN for a drink at the hotel. You can buy a round for a few people and easily go through a hundred bucks without a breath... and that is if you only have a few friends!

More over, if you had the balls and the contacts to be able to distribute these letters at the Cathedral party, I am sure that you know enough people to be able to meet new people and make some money.

I wish you luck in attempting a show of your own. Ask the people who have attempted to do webmaster get-togethers and shows in the past in Canada, you will learn that it isn't just about posting up a time and place - and that $150 is nothing compared to the effort required to make it go.

Alex

I met you and I hung out with you Alex, and I think the show was great, meeting you was sheer pleasure, and this uhh..whatever who can't even write his own letters is certainly not going to get too far in the business with his attitude.

Thanks for an amazing time, man! Get in touch with me anytime icq 3522039 or email treasure@jactstudios.com

Danny_C

06-09-2003, 09:17 PM

I thought it was a great show!

I prefer the shows with no booths. It allows us all to walk around and talk to each other, without all the bells and whistles that do nothing but distract us from the real purpose of being there. That's nothing against booths, but let's keep the booths to two big shows a year.

JFK: Actually, he's correct about the company names. I know my company wasn't on my badge. But no big deal... I didn't think to write it, but I did tell everybody I spoke to my company name, and gave them my card. That fixed that problem.

As for the drinks, surely we can all afford a few drinks. In fact, I kind of enjoyed the opportunity to buy a few people drinks. It means more when you pay for it. Maybe that's just me.

Seminars: Wow. I've never really gotten a whole lot out of seminars... not to say they've been useless, but I've just personally never gotten much out of them. This time I thought they were excellent. I left every seminar with a ton of ideas, and I've been in about every sector of this industry over my seven years in the business. They may have been presented in a form that newbies could follow, but they definitely weren't exclusively for newbies.

Networking: As said above, you get out of it what you put in. I'm actually a very introverted person (luckily not shy, but definitely a thinker more than a talker). But when I go to shows, I'm sure to introduce myself to every person who comes within three feet of me. Nobody is going to come near me and walk away without knowing who I work for. If you make that a rule, you'll never leave a show empty-handed. People in this industry are some of the nicest people in the world when you see them in person, and once you meet one, they'll introduce you to others.

And as for distributing letters... man, what a way to lose friends. I'm really sorry you did that. Personally, I think an apology is in order. Another little insight about this industry - we're all suckers for a good apology.

Sharpie

06-09-2003, 10:28 PM

Wanted to let everyone know that the trip home was uneventful (the airport wheelchair really helped) Hit the hospital emergency room as soon as getting off the plane & should be able to drive the rest of the way home tomorrow......

I haven't really decided whether to reply to all this critism or not. But I know it would not be appropriate while taking the drugs....

But........... you know there is a line on the registration form where people put in whatever they want on their badges..... we just print them off - we don't tell them what to say!:confused:

Funbrunette

06-09-2003, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by Sharpie
Wanted to let everyone know that the trip home was uneventful (the airport wheelchair really helped) Hit the hospital emergency room as soon as getting off the plane & should be able to drive the rest of the way home tomorrow......

I haven't really decided whether to reply to all this critism or not. But I know it would not be appropriate while taking the drugs....

But........... you know there is a line on the registration form where people put in whatever they want on their badges..... we just print them off - we don't tell them what to say!:confused:

Keep us posted on how you feel Fay...:)

Danny_C

06-09-2003, 11:00 PM

Hey Sharpie... for the record, I had no criticism at all. Greg put in the info in the form, so if the lack of a company name was the result of an incomplete form, then that's Greg's ass next time I see him!!

But seriously, that was no big deal... it's not even worth mentioning. It's trivial, and I'm mystified by the fact that somebody would go out of their way to complain about it. But... that's just my opinion.

Just to reiterate, it ranked among the best shows I've been to, on a number of levels. Excellent job putting it together.

Crak_JMan

06-09-2003, 11:58 PM

Digital Shawn

06-10-2003, 09:44 AM

my simple, yet quite effective solution was to place my business card where as the company name appeared under my name.....

Faye, hope all is well with you, and congrads to you and Dave on a great show!

Sharpie

06-10-2003, 02:28 PM

Well, to end this badge name discussion, I just checked the records to see if we goofed.

Here is what I found:

Stu and Daniel signed up online on may 25th and what did they ask for on the badge name line?

Drum Roll pleae :-)

nadda , zip, nothing - they left it blank - DUH!
in case of a blank it defaults to their name.

So, wonder why their company name wasn't on THEIR badge.

:bonk:

Evil Chris

06-10-2003, 02:44 PM

what astounds me is the distribution of these letters at a party. :confused:

Vid Vicious

06-10-2003, 02:51 PM

First .. Sorry I'm late on this thread .. But seems Like I'm one of the only guys that kept the party going till Monday night ..LOL

I knew about this letter before it was written .. and there are a few points I agree with .. the main one being the cover charge .. 125 OR 150 For a none show floor convention is a little high .. and yes the badges could of been better .. Also the organisation of the parties should of been better prepared way too many people had no idea what parties were on ... Other then that the networking rocked! Those of us that went there to network, create new bussiness relationships and meet up with old friends did fuck awsome .. so in conclusion .. I don't hold any grudges against Daniel (for those of you that don't know he supplied the bulk of the girls at the gamma/Peternorth Party) Daniel is a bussiness man and likes to get the most out of his dollar ... And Last I looked we lived in a free country where freedom of speech is supported not shunned upon ..

If you have something to say, just say it ... It not keep your mouth shut and live with the fact that no one will ever know ...

Proud to be to live in a sociaty that allows for freedom of speech !!!

barryf

06-10-2003, 03:01 PM

Here are my pics. Enjoy!

http://nat290.national-net.com/cybernetexpo/Thumbs1.html

B

Vid Vicious

06-10-2003, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by barryf
Here are my pics. Enjoy!

http://nat290.national-net.com/cybe...po/Thumbs1.html

B

Dead link brother .. Ah fuck I'll hit ya up on icq .. it's faster

Evil Chris

06-10-2003, 03:12 PM

Nice pics Barry... it's funny but in the last few pictures, you notice people partying still, and the sun has been up already for at least an hour. :D

Sharpie

06-10-2003, 04:38 PM

Vid..... a little cooperation goes a LONG WAY.

And that pisses me off.

How can I publicize a damn party when NO ONE BOTHERS to inform me.?

Someone from Gamma sent us email on June 4th while at the show asking us to help them publisize the G-string party. They changed the date of the party the next day. We asked them to bring some flyers and we would give them out - WE did. Others chose to make them private so they can control the numbers.

We publisized everything we knew about . As for the Platinum Bucks suite they were trying to find a bigger room, and never did give us the suite number, even after numerous requests.

The National Net party was put together the day of the party - that is how Tony does things.

Everything that we knew about was posted on the site the months previous to the show and later again on the show daily that was picked up on a regular bases by most of the attendees.

The cigar party was a last minute thing done by Chris for XNations. He never ask us to help publisize it. He did it himself to his board members.

I would have loved to posted more on the stie - it would have been good for the show. I can't make people do things they are not willing to do, or publize things without their permission. I will not take the blame for private parties not being made public information. I have the idea that many think we charge for this or nail them for things like Internext. We don't or never have. We go out of our way to help them make their event a success in any way we can.

But it all takes a small degree of cooperation. We are not mind readers. I care about these things and lack of cooperation, but others have to take some responsibility to get me the information - IF they want me to have it.

As far as the cost...... in all reality, the costs to provide the venue are more without the showroom. We had to pay for the space anyway to provide the privacy. that an event like this should have. The risks for this show were very very high with the bad economy, War, SARS, and the devaluation of the American Dollar. Anyone of those things could have sunk it on it's own. But, I did not back out just because it got HARD to pull off. It was just not as good as it could and should have been. I take 100% responsibility for my goofs - but can't take responsibility for others. Too bad the trend in this industry is to make decisions at the last minute. It leads to problems like this and stresses me out to no end, because those who know me know how very much I care!

Vid Vicious

06-10-2003, 04:48 PM

Thanks for that info Fay .. Your right sponcors should take the time to inform the show organisers about what they plan on doing even if they aren't ready yet .. I could just imagine the amount of people that came up to you asking what parties where goin on ... Must of been hell hun

No worries hun this show was off the hook .. many people have told me they were thrilled with the turn out and that Networking was one of they're top priorities ... Here's one quote I recieved try to see who said it .. " Montreal surpassed jamiaca, And I thought Jaimaca was the tops" Or something like that I was pretty wasted when he/she told me this ...

Glad to hear your feeling better fay :)

gunner

06-10-2003, 06:24 PM

montreal kicks ass.
great show, great fucking show.

except I'd like to go find that chef that served me the bad steak
on thur. night.

RawAlex

06-10-2003, 08:29 PM

Vid, I think almost everyone in the place came up and asked me at one point or another about parties... my answer pretty much was "Platinum Bucks has a suite in the hotel, 2818 or 24 something... I don't know" and "Tonight's party that we know about is..."

Had the party sponsors been a little more proactive in letting everyone know what was going on, they would have had more info posted on the website, distributed at the show, whatever. Parties are cool, the companies that decide to sponsor them are cool, and the show tries it's damndest to make sure everyone knows about the events as they happen.

Vid, until you have tried to do one of these things, you haven't seen what an honest to goodness clusterfuck it can turn into as people change plans, places, and situations, and don't let anyone know until the last minute. Because people are often somewhat out of communication, it is hard to spread the word on changes. The webmaster tour was well communicated, early in the going, and was well attended and VERY MUCH appreciated by everyone who went out on it. Other events were put together at the last minute, and results varied. I am sure that any event that was set up and communicated to Fay would have made the website and everyone would have known about it.

Even with "last minute" we pulled some things off, like getting space set aside and stuff for Guru & Brandy's wedding.

There are always things that could be better, and it is always a learning experience. The lack of booths at the show reflects the industry adjusting the economic times, not wanting to mess with the border, and generally prefering to do more social / instructional stuff and less "big dicking" on booths. I would need both hands and both feet to count the companies that have big dicked booths in the last 2 years at shows only to disappear out of business... Less and less companies are willing to spend to show, and are more than willing to send the right people, mingle, and make the business deals in social settings and seminar rooms.

Get use to it, the business is going this way in the US.

Europe, well, that is a whole other situation... :-)

Alex

Dugmor

06-10-2003, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by Mister X
And I'm man enough to admit that I should have gone on the Webmaster Tour despite what I felt about the show itself. I think Dugmor! did a simply awesome job of organizing that whole thing. The fact that I knew what was coming might have dampened my enthusiasm just a tad, hehehe.

Thanks for the postive comments, I will be honest it was very hard to plan this when I did'nt know how many people where going to attend. That is why we made people pre register to CyberNet Expo so I could get some kind of idea. I knew there would be people that signed at the door so I over booked a bus and guide just in case. The truth was that you did'nt have to be pre registered and everyone could go on the bus , I just needed to get some idea on how to plan.

Even if you are from Montreal, the networking possibility was there on the Webmaster Tour. All you had to do was sit down next to the webmaster you wanted to corner and pick his brain from stop to stop !

Next time :)

12clicks

06-10-2003, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by Vid Vicious
And Last I looked we lived in a free country where freedom of speech is supported not shunned upon ..

If you have something to say, just say it ... It not keep your mouth shut and live with the fact that no one will ever know ...

Proud to be to live in a sociaty that allows for freedom of speech !!!

What the fuck are you talking about? Just because your opinion is the minority does not give you the protection of free speech. free speech works both ways and if I want to call daniel an asshole for his actions and silly accusations, that too is free speech my man.

Vid Vicious

06-10-2003, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by 12clicks
What the fuck are you talking about? Just because your opinion is the minority does not give you the protection of free speech. free speech works both ways and if I want to call daniel an asshole for his actions and silly accusations, that too is free speech my man.

Never said you couldn't .. that's you're absolute right ...

McAttack

06-11-2003, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by Dugmor

Even if you are from Montreal, the networking possibility was there on the Webmaster Tour. All you had to do was sit down next to the webmaster you wanted to corner and pick his brain from stop to stop !

Next time :)

That's what I did. Met Greg from Sexpromote this way and a few others. I am from Montreal, lived here all my life and I still did the tour cause I figured there'd be a lot of people there.

Purple Haze

06-11-2003, 12:05 PM

The Spread4U crew had a great time. As sponsors of the show, we did get our monies worth and found it to be a great networking opportunity. I believe that shows like this provide me with a better opporunity to do business than the larger ones. I know that I'm looking forward to returning to Montreal next year.

Purple Haze

Vid Vicious

06-12-2003, 12:44 AM

First off 12clicks get your thumb out of your ass .. seems like all you like to do lately is stir shit up .. read my posts and maybe get to know me before you run off at the mouth or Keyboards as it might be .. I haven't side with anyone, I sided with free speech .. basicly Bringing home the point that the Internet and/or boards are the place for it .. some people use it to bitch others use it to there advantage, either to network or research ...

RawAlex .. Read my last post to Fay and you'll see (or better yet just ask her) that I have been pushing this show from day one, And that I had nothing Bad to say other the obvious. I do Appreciate all the work and heart ack that goes into a putting a show together ... Do your research and you''ll learn that I have put shows together .. hell I helped put on together just over a month ago in toronto .. We had much more problems with sars, a bad hotel, way too many cancellations and well in my honest opionion the worst date we could of chosen (still don't understand how that one got past us ...

So Please guys before you let your emotions run away with you. Please take the time to see whom your attacking.

I beleive in fair play and hard work ... If you have something to say about that then go ahead .. but stop looking for someone to point the finger at, remember there is always 3 fingers pointing right back at you.

baddog

06-12-2003, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by Vid Vicious
And Last I looked we lived in a free country where freedom of speech is supported not shunned upon ..

I thought you lived in Canada :p

baddog

06-12-2003, 01:29 AM

Originally posted by Sharpie
The risks for this show were very very high with the bad economy, War, SARS, and the devaluation of the American Dollar

was just wondering if I missed somethnig . . . . is Canada at war again? :rolleyes:

Feynman

06-12-2003, 02:04 AM

----------------------------
MisterX said:
In closing I will point out that the large majority of positive comments about this show were about the parties and the great people who attended the show.
----------------------------

Business is 90% human factor.

----------------------------
MisterX said:
In my honest opinion it seems that, except for booking the hotel and delegating tasks to other people, Tradeshow Productions did little or nothing to earn what they charged people.
----------------------------

Of the 9 girls that the outfit I worked for hired from Eromodel, at least 8 were of the same opinion concerning the fee Eromodel charged. Yet, the referral fee was only a modest part of their wages (typically 10%).

And all of these were eager to bypass the agent (Daniel) whenever possible. Some of them are still listed on Eromodel site, some others are not anymore.

My point is that it's all a matter of perspective. It's always easier to conclude that others are "making money on our back". But ain't we are all doing it? Money is made to move.

---------------------
MisterX said:
Which is what that letter is all about. Tradeshow Productions organized this show for ONE reason. To make money.
--------------------

May they have made a bundle ! Good for them !

--------------------
JFK said:
Its the new lean and mean model of a show , as we have seen in Phoenix. No show floor, people get together for seminars and to network. As far as the seminars and round table discussions at this show, they were well organised, and professionaly presented. You do not need a show floor to do business!
--------------------

I think here lies the crux of Daniel et al. recriminations.

It all depends on the type of business you're operating.

Daniel's running, among other ops, a model agency; he surely would have liked to display his girls in a booth...

Booking twenty girls at 150$ each would have cost him 3 grands. He'd have to book girls at least thrice each at 70$ per referral to break even (taking into account his overhead).

Daniel's well established. I suppose it is difficult for him to "do business" or "strike deals" due to the very nature of how a model agency operates.

The concept of "deal making" hardly applies to his modus operandi, as it is difficult to do a deal on an unspecified girl. Proof is, every model agency displays a girl portfolio. You don't buy the services of the agency, you buy the referral to one model and that's that. It's very often a "cash and carry" business.

A booth would have provided him with a controlled environment where he could introduce his models to the industry, while also maintaining a certain control over how the model represented his business.

Furthermore, I've never met a porn model who's never toyed with the idea of going private, of bypassing her agency. In that sense, paying the fee of 20 girls and let them roam free runs the risk of becoming a loosing proposition in more than one way. It is one thing to organize an event with 20 girls in public, in a bar, with possibly some people of the industry around but mixed with the general public, and an entirely different thing to bring twenty girls in a convention where they *know* that they will be surrounded by prospective clients. The temptation to go private will probably be overwhelming.

So, for all of these reasons, I can understand why the show, with it's lack of conventional structure, was not good to him.

If I had been in his shoes, I'd have gotten very creative in trying to strike a special deal with the show organizers. Him being a seasoned businessman, he probably tried anyway...

As far as I'm concerned, the show was fantastic to me. The contacts I made and Mark Tiara's seminars were well worth the overall 350$ that the show cost me (registration, meals, transportation, etc).

vstina

06-12-2003, 02:17 AM

Montreal was a blast, my first time to the Cybernet Expo and can't wait to return.
Everything turned out perfect, point is we all left Montreal meeting more new people, giving everyone that much more business.
I find it hard to believe that people are actually bitching or complaining about the show. The ones that do need to glance at themselves and try to figure out what is wrong.
Did I mention I got to see my favorite people again.......hint hint Vid....
xoxoxoxo

Pidgin

06-12-2003, 08:51 AM

Ok. Here are my views on this entire thread.

First of all, instead of focusing on the negative in this thread - try focusing on the positive value it may hold.
MisterX criticism of the show holds some important points.
1. Drinks should not be overpriced in a place where they are not the main issue (like a bar/pub) and if fact can help people feel the show was better than it is ;) as well as help people relax and network better (unless you drink too much). Was overpricing the case? I don’t know – I wasn’t there. How much was a glass of beer? How much was wine?
2. $125 for a show where there is only a space to get together is also overpriced UNLESS that $125 included something else. I do not know since I wasn't there (I regret not being there) but if the seminars were included in that - then its fair. (The criticism about the seminars - I can not address that since I wasn't attending). Anyway - I don't know if it was right for that one, but usually you know what you get for what you are paying for in advance. That was the case for Internext. Don't know about this one because I didn't go - but wasn't there a site where you could find that out?
3. Not having name tags is a shame. It’s not a good excuse saying "you could have asked them who they were or should have known in advance" – that is pure bullshit. The whole point of a show is to meet new people – telling someone they should have known them in advance is foolish and nametags are not rocket science. Company+Name tags are an old and well known concept. I see no reason not having them. (Though some people say there were tags – so I don’t understand it. Maybe they were hard to find? Don’t know – the fact the people say there was a problem mostly proves there was one)

Which brings me to the second thought - Don't reject people's criticism. You will be the only looser for that. Even if it's badly put and seems invalid - try to get the best things you can out of it. If you think the show was perfect and someone raises some points where your reaction is "I think differently and anyway - do the best with what you have" I think you are wrong. You should always strive for better (in this case show) and almost everybody's opinion - especially criticism - may hold a key for improvement.

Now - as to networking opportunities. There are no rules there. Booths help and tags help. And if you are good at this and very social it helps.
But even then, in the last Internext I met wonderful people in the least expected occasions. Only one example out of several, where I met wonderful people in Vegas IN SPITE the lack of tags and booths...
It was in PSB's lounge party that started slow and where I attended alone without friends (which makes me less social since I am a "friends" person). First I met Meni - I had no idea it was him because in his pics he looks like a body builder ;) and in reality he is half my height ;) (that’s because I am tall. very) hehe. Anyway - not only that but ALL PSB's people wore shirts with the WRONG names. Go figure. Meni pointed FNP Dave out which proved to be a wonderful person and things went from there..
But even better was my meeting with Poppy and Laurie. I basically met them in that same occasion by chance, where we happened to ask one another "hey - whazap - who are you?" and sat to the same table together. No tags, no booths, little social readiness. Till this day, I think it was one of the finest hooking-up I had at Internext and that is even without this relation being based on immediate gain. Some people are just good to meet because they are good people at heart and as time prove sometimes - also people how its a loss not to know :D
So as to booths – I have no clear opinion, just saying I see nothing wrong with them and it’s the companies who usually push to having those, not the attendees - afaik.

Why don't I balance things by criticizing MisterX post and what some may think of as invalid approach? Well - I just explained it - Focus on the valuable and positive.

Final word - I talked to people about that show. Many said it was great.
Only think what they would say if next year it was even better if the organizers implemented some of the improvements suggested from people's criticism. Personal attacks on MisterX or Daniel are pointless and damaging to the attackers. I never saw something getting better by putting down all the criticism some had about it and trying to create a consensus about how perfect it was. Live and learn. Nothing is perfect. Embrace criticism.

Anyway - thumbs up for people who move things forward and organize trade shows.

Just my 2 cents.

JFK

06-12-2003, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by XXXManager
Ok. Here are my views on this entire thread.

First of all, instead of focusing on the negative in this thread - try focusing on the positive value it may hold.
MisterX criticism of the show holds some important points.
1. Drinks should not be overpriced in a place where they are not the main issue (like a bar/pub) and if fact can help people feel the show was better than it is ;) as well as help people relax and network better (unless you drink too much). Was overpricing the case? I don’t know – I wasn’t there. How much was a glass of beer? How much was wine?
2. $125 for a show where there is only a space to get together is also overpriced UNLESS that $125 included something else. I do not know since I wasn't there (I regret not being there) but if the seminars were included in that - then its fair. (The criticism about the seminars - I can not address that since I wasn't attending). Anyway - I don't know if it was right for that one, but usually you know what you get for what you are paying for in advance. That was the case for Internext. Don't know about this one because I didn't go - but wasn't there a site where you could find that out?
3. Not having name tags is a shame. It’s not a good excuse saying "you could have asked them who they were or should have known in advance" – that is pure bullshit. The whole point of a show is to meet new people – telling someone they should have known them in advance is foolish and nametags are not rocket science. Company+Name tags are an old and well known concept. I see no reason not having them. (Though some people say there were tags – so I don’t understand it. Maybe they were hard to find? Don’t know – the fact the people say there was a problem mostly proves there was one)

Which brings me to the second thought - Don't reject people's criticism. You will be the only looser for that. Even if it's badly put and seems invalid - try to get the best things you can out of it. If you think the show was perfect and someone raises some points where your reaction is "I think differently and anyway - do the best with what you have" I think you are wrong. You should always strive for better (in this case show) and almost everybody's opinion - especially criticism - may hold a key for improvement.

Now - as to networking opportunities. There are no rules there. Booths help and tags help. And if you are good at this and very social it helps.
But even then, in the last Internext I met wonderful people in the least expected occasions. Only one example out of several, where I met wonderful people in Vegas IN SPITE the lack of tags and booths...
It was in PSB's lounge party that started slow and where I attended alone without friends (which makes me less social since I am a "friends" person). First I met Meni - I had no idea it was him because in his pics he looks like a body builder ;) and in reality he is half my height ;) (that’s because I am tall. very) hehe. Anyway - not only that but ALL PSB's people wore shirts with the WRONG names. Go figure. Meni pointed FNP Dave out which proved to be a wonderful person and things went from there..
But even better was my meeting with Poppy and Laurie. I basically met them in that same occasion by chance, where we happened to ask one another "hey - whazap - who are you?" and sat to the same table together. No tags, no booths, little social readiness. Till this day, I think it was one of the finest hooking-up I had at Internext and that is even without this relation being based on immediate gain. Some people are just good to meet because they are good people at heart and as time prove sometimes - also people how its a loss not to know :D
So as to booths – I have no clear opinion, just saying I see nothing wrong with them and it’s the companies who usually push to having those, not the attendees - afaik.

Why don't I balance things by criticizing MisterX post and what some may think of as invalid approach? Well - I just explained it - Focus on the valuable and positive.

Final word - I talked to people about that show. Many said it was great.
Only think what they would say if next year it was even better if the organizers implemented some of the improvements suggested from people's criticism. Personal attacks on MisterX or Daniel are pointless and damaging to the attackers. I never saw something getting better by putting down all the criticism some had about it and trying to create a consensus about how perfect it was. Live and learn. Nothing is perfect. Embrace criticism.

Anyway - thumbs up for people who move things forward and organize trade shows.

Just my 2 cents.

Just to pick on a couple of your observations on the thread ....
The registration booth was open during show hours an very accesible, this is where the badges were available to all who wanted them.

Second of all , there is nothing wrong with constructive criticism, it is the manner in which this particular one was done, that has most attendees up in arms. Amen.....

RawAlex

06-12-2003, 10:59 AM

I just gotta, ya know?

XXXManager:

1) Drinks were what they were. They were not more expensive than other places in the hotel, and there were bar sponsors giving away free drink coupons during the day and such. As a matter of fact, during the opening cocktail party, the sponsor coupons all were used up and by popular demand a cash bar was ADDED - and people used it and sales were brisk. After paying $9 US in Miami for a drink, NOTHHING is expensive!

2) The show fee included networking, three days of seminars, breakout sessions, and access to "badge only" parties and events. Those seminars, far from being the usual talking head crap, actually involved getting some well informed people on different subjects to show HOW THINGS ARE DONE, including shooting and editting videos, dreamweaver, paysite design, and the like. Ynot hosted some pretty intense sessions that later were followed up by breakouts with the different people involved on the panel. Think about it, 3 days, (at even the you didn't book ahead fee of $150) is only $50 a day for seminars and training from good and well informed people. I am looking at a single 3 day "video editting" seminar in the US, and it is $400 plus misc fees.

3) Every attendee had a name tag, and the abilty to put almost anything on it. Some chose to have their names only, some chose to have their company names, some chose to have website names. Some chose to hide their badges in their pockets. Everyone had a badge. I get the impression that the letter writer would have wanted the badges to say something like:

BOB SMITH
SMITH COMPANY
I NEED MODELS
COME TALK TO ME
SO I CAN MAKE YOU MONEY

Besides the fact that nobody wants to wear and 8/12 by 11 piece of paper around their necks, honestly, some people just aren't trying to self promote. Some people just don't go out of their way to announce their business.

In the end, there is a way to complain and a way to make your methods more important than the compaints themselves. Just as importantly, the show staff were always around the show area, and could be contacted at ANY time... all you have to do is ask. A letter handed out off site about the show just show that there was no attempt to resolve issues with show staff.

Alex

Pidgin

06-12-2003, 12:31 PM

Well, most of the replies I saw here was not about how bad mannered was MisterX post, but about how irrelevant are the points he raised.

All I said is that there is great benefit in putting away the bad feelings and look into the points themselves raised by his comment. Failing to do so would not help improve the show for next time.
If anyone think that the show was perfect and no one is allowed to criticise things - they are acting foolish. There are always room for improvement, especially in a show where people didn't have detailed nametags (whatever the reason and wherever the blame is - even on the atendees) and where there was no party schedule (even if the blame is on the sponsors). If Internext could pull a party list and nametags for all, it means its not impossible - even if hard.
Am I blaming anyone? hell no. I only suggest that people can learn from criticism instead of taking offense.
If someone tells you your site design sucks - don't tell them "Well, fuck you - others manage". Tell him "Im sad to hear it - what do you think is the problem and do you have any ideas how it could be resolved".

Don't agree with me? That's your right.

That was 99% of my post. the other 1% was a story I told about networking and some questions which were answered by RawAlex (Thanks man)

I for one miss not being there. Next time maybe (if the points raised were implemented).

Mister X

06-12-2003, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by Feynman
(snip)
Of the 9 girls that the outfit I worked for hired from Eromodel, at least 8 were of the same opinion concerning the fee Eromodel charged. Yet, the referral fee was only a modest part of their wages (typically 10%).

And all of these were eager to bypass the agent (Daniel) whenever possible. Some of them are still listed on Eromodel site, some others are not anymore.

My point is that it's all a matter of perspective. It's always easier to conclude that others are "making money on our back". But ain't we are all doing it? Money is made to move.

What does that have to do with anything? Most of the models are not signed to exclusive contracts. And the booking fee does NOT come out of their wages. It's paid by whoever calls the agency to book her. And the usual fee is 15% not 10%, unless it's a better than usual customer. And Daniel is NOT an agent for most of these girls. If they want to book their own shoots then they are welcome to do so.

I think here lies the crux of Daniel et al. recriminations.

It all depends on the type of business you're operating.

Daniel's running, among other ops, a model agency; he surely would have liked to display his girls in a booth...

Booking twenty girls at 150$ each would have cost him 3 grands. He'd have to book girls at least thrice each at 70$ per referral to break even (taking into account his overhead).

Daniel's well established. I suppose it is difficult for him to "do business" or "strike deals" due to the very nature of how a model agency operates.

The concept of "deal making" hardly applies to his modus operandi, as it is difficult to do a deal on an unspecified girl. Proof is, every model agency displays a girl portfolio. You don't buy the services of the agency, you buy the referral to one model and that's that. It's very often a "cash and carry" business.

A booth would have provided him with a controlled environment where he could introduce his models to the industry, while also maintaining a certain control over how the model represented his business.

Furthermore, I've never met a porn model who's never toyed with the idea of going private, of bypassing her agency. In that sense, paying the fee of 20 girls and let them roam free runs the risk of becoming a loosing proposition in more than one way. It is one thing to organize an event with 20 girls in public, in a bar, with possibly some people of the industry around but mixed with the general public, and an entirely different thing to bring twenty girls in a convention where they *know* that they will be surrounded by prospective clients. The temptation to go private will probably be overwhelming.

So, for all of these reasons, I can understand why the show, with it's lack of conventional structure, was not good to him.

If I had been in his shoes, I'd have gotten very creative in trying to strike a special deal with the show organizers. Him being a seasoned businessman, he probably tried anyway...
No offense but you're talking out your ass on all of that. It's pure unreasoned speculation on your part.

1) Who ever heard of a giant booth with 20 girls done by a casting agency??? It makes no sense, from the standpoint of someone who would actually make money from CASTING those girls, to spend money to put them in his own booth and tell his good customers that they can't book them for a show.

2) You say in the same paragraph that Daniel is well established AND that it is difficult for him to do business or strike deals. That makes NO sense. And "due to the very nature of how a model agency operates" ??? What does that even mean for god's sake?

3) Gee what a surprise that a casting agent would have a portfolio to show pics of the girls to prospective clients. And it isn't true that you don't buy the services of the casting agent. In many cases we provide transport for the girls to and from the site of the shoot. We arrange for HIV tests, etc. We take responsibility for whether a girl shows up or not. We spend the time it takes to actually get her on the phone and commit to a shooting date. And with a lot of these girls that in itself is no mean feat. We make sure before hand that the girl is willing to do what the customer wants her to do. And add to that the fact that we often provide studio space, etc. at no charge. We don't just show a bunch of pics to someone and tell them to pick a girl and then give them a telephone number. It's FAR more than a referral to a model. And just as important as that is the fact that we provide a degree of protection to the models who are often taken advantage of by some of the less principled people in this business.

4) What does the fact that almost all models take private bookings at times have to do with ANYTHING? You keep harping on that fact.

5) All your big speech is predicated on the supposition that Daniel went into a fit of rage ( or some such stupid thing) because HE wanted a booth and the show apparently (according to you) didn't let him have one. Well here's some news: Daniel never tried to have a booth. The show organizers never turned down his hypothetical (read nonexistent) request for a big huge booth with 20 models. And do you know what else? daniel was never even slightly interested in having a booth. I doubt that the idea even crossed his mind.

6) Next time try and mix a little fact in with your fiction. It really wasn't up to your usual efforts.

7) Have a nice day!

Sharpie

06-12-2003, 04:02 PM

OK - guys..... enough! Daniel is welcome to his opinion. I just don't know why he wanted to take it as far as passing out copies of his post at an event????

Maybe he did not understand the badge making process and that him or anyone else for that matter - didn't realize that whatever was put on the BADGE NAME line was what was going to be on the badge.? ? Maybe this is a good thing, and people will pay more attention to that information. No one deeply regrets the loss of the show room more than me - I CAN GUARANTEE THAT - but, we have always had a showroom in the past. This Industry changes on a dime, and we have to accept those changes.

I am sure that he and others took for granted, that everyone gave us information on the parties (they always have in the past) - but again this is a new 'day and age - things change. Maybe sponsors have learned also that the production people are not mind readers, and have to have this info to pass on to the attendees. I hope they have learned the importance of cooperation. Cooperation is essential for something of this size to be well organized.

I think maybe Daniel has also learned from the experience - I sure have. We have always tried new things at every show & these were gained by us listening to what attendees have to say & trying to implement their ideas where we can. Maybe, if I had not become ill on the first day - I would have been more assessible and Daniel and I might have talked about his grievances - but we have to accept the way things turned out, learn our lessons and move on.

I have .... so let's all let Daniel rest. I am sure he is not a bad person - just a disappointed one who found unorthodox ways to voice it. I am OK with it. Disappointed, but know that there are just some things beyond our control. So, let's just let it go, and consider that we all learned something here.:bonk: