Hungryman, another year and you haven't paid your debt

[cdsmith]

Some of you will recall I also went on a rampage last year on behalf of Rikki Lee (aka: Teen Angel, aka: Aussie Angel), because Hungryman owed her over $1000 for design work from over a year before that.

Paul, you gave me your word. We had an agreement. Did you really think this would just "go away"?? Reminder: You hired Rikki Lee to do some work for you like 2 and a half years ago. You were paid by the clients for her work, and then you did not pay her her cut. According to her, as of yesterday on ICQ, you owe her over $1000 still.

Our agreement was that you would at LEAST make some small payments (my suggestion, my offer to you)..... you agreed that you would make a few small payments from time to time in good faith. That is ALL that I asked.... after which I backed down from trashing you publicly so you could rebuild your business and start paying down your debts.

So another year has gone by since then and according to Rikki Lee you have not made one single payment. I don't know what else to say here. I'm astounded man. To me, a person's word is their worth.

I told both you AND the other ex-design broker that owes RL money that unless the agreement was kept I would not stop bringing this disgusting issue to people's attention and recommend that people AVOID doing business with you. Did you think I was kidding?

Isn't it about time you paid Rikki Lee what you owe her?

[cdsmith]

Neither Rikki Lee or myself has been contacted by Hungryman as yet. He hasn't responded to ICQs. He did post once on another board, but it was all arrogance and defiance on his part, no shame or remorse whatsoever. He has obviously hoped that this would simply "go away" on it's own. Wrong.



TO EVERYONE: People that continue to do business with Hungryman need to know that he has ripped off some damn good and talented people in this industry in the past. If that doesn't sit well with you, there are plenty of good designers that I would gladly recommend to you.



Paul, you need to make this right. You can't screw people over like this and expect that they will just keep quiet about it. The world doesn't work that way.

[Teen Angel]

Paul.

I cant believe how you are behaving with this?

I have owed people money myself and know that it is not a nice feeling and I am guessing when you think of the debts you feel pretty overwhelmed at the amount you really do owe. I know at least 4 people you owe money to. Did you eve pay back Nem?
Ignoring it will not make the debts go away. Paying them will.

We dont care if you pay us back $5 a bloody week.

Your attitude in this matter should show the rest of the people in this business, that you are a very selfish, imature person that should simply not be trusted. People who blow off debts are not the ones that people chose to do business with.

I simply cannot believe you are still in business. That in itself does not show how talented and business minded you are. It shows that you are slimy and manipulative. And LIE.

People tried to help you. Including myself and you turn around and basically put your finger up to those people.

I am sorry I was too naieve to think that you were a better person than this...

[SKULL]

Whatever money is owed by whomever needs to be paid... honesty is part of having good ethics...

[Feynman]

Unless I was completely fooled on Hungryman's character, here's my opinion on your letter:


It is my opinion that this letter of yours was very unwise...

Hungryman was so slimed on GFY by Vid that he's lost at least 75% of all of his revenues. It did not dawn on him, I surmise because of THC-induced neuronal slowdown, that if he destroyed Hungryman's revenue base, how would Hungry be able to repay anything back ?

But AFAIK, he did know that there was in fact no true significant debt, so it was really a vicious attack. He claimed a debt for an old VCR that he's GIVEN to him. He claimed monies for the cleaning lady, but that's about all. I guesstimate the value at 200 bucks or less. Yet, IMHO, what Vid did to Hungryman was enough to justify a major lawsuit...

And again, at this very moment, he's being attacked for God knows what sake on GFY (maybe you're leading the jihad?) , while his IP address has been blocked, therefore preventing him to defend himself. If I were him (and had money), I'd sue GFY and the slimers into friggin oblivion.

I know Hungry rather well. He's got his idiosyncratic character but he's a darn hard worker and people who are doing business with him knows that he DELIVERS the work. He's doing work for big players, but IMHO, he does not charge enough for his service AND he's too perfectionist, so he ends up working for a rather low hourly rate. Of course, his clients are ecstatic, but that doesn't make him rich...

Accessorily, he also got fleeced a few times for contracts he's done since last summer, but in these cases, it's much less pardonable because those people HAD money. Did he go on the board to whine to the world ? Nope.


Remember the old saying: what goes around comes around. Sometimes, the route goodwill takes is rather long and circuitous...

I am not aware of the minutiae of his business but I can tell you that he's been working darn hard to get himself out of the shit hole people with big ego and little brain put him into...

After a year, I suggest you not cut but rather postpone your losses. From what I know from him, and I've got to know him a lot, I think that he'll eventually make good on all his true debts.

While I agree that it might be proper to warn people not to do work for him, because of his hypothetical difficulty to make payments (just ask C.O.D.), I find it very unwise of you to discourage people to do business at all with him. He can be accused of many things, but not of being a con man and not honouring his commitments makes him deeply unhappy.

Beside, with respect to sliming him, if he doesn't get any clients because of your intervention, how do you expect him to pay you back ?

That's a real no-brainer !

The only plausible explanation to your ranting, because I refuse to ascribe sheer malice or stupidity to you, is that you probably think he's got money coming out of his ears and that he's dishonouring his commitments and that by shaming him in public, you'll entice him to pay.

But if you mis-calculated, the odds are that this will backfire against you... If you don't know the exact state of his finances, it would be wise to be cautious before undermining his ability to pay you back.

(I'm not questionning the alledged debt here. Maybe it is questionnable but I take your word for it, for the moment)

Just for entertainment, let me remind you of a few facts about his last year's business...

He spent six months of his life putting up the Webmaster's summit and got zilch out of it. He moved to Montreal with Vid and eventually, Vid backed out of their mutual projects. Apparently, Vid sucked up his knowledge, learned web design from Paul and then, when he got what he wanted, he dropped him.

Then, for highly dubious reasons, Vid slandered him over an alledged debt for a server that Vid himself owned, i.e. Vid blamed Hungryman for Vid's wrong decisions and failure to take responsibility for his own actions and claimed an imaginary debt. Then, Hungry had to move out from Vid's.

Then, later on, he was barred from participating in organising the Webmaster's summit in Vancouver, where he could hypothetically have recouped his losses. BTW, Toronto's Webmaster's summit was below par because the only guy who did significant work was him, his alledged partners being all talk and no action.

So, as I said, I suggest you postpone your losses.

As to him clearing his debts, future will tell, but I trust his character 100%.

Oh, and another thing: who do you think he'll re-imburse first? The people who preserved good relationship with him and backed him nothwithstanding his difficulties or the ones who slandered him on public forums, causing dammages to the core of his business and with/for whom he's got nothing to gain by re-imbursing because the dammage was already done to his reputation ?

That's another double-dip no-brainer...

I suggest you read the Sun Tzu (aka The Art of War, written 2400 years ago); It's a must-read for any head of corporation who want to learn about conflict management and resolution and ensuring victory...


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1570629781/qid=1078911246/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-1877059-8696128?v=glance&s=books


Feel free to think whatever you wish about my abovestated opinion, I'll fight to defend your right to think that I'm an utter idiot.

[cdsmith]

The above poster is so far out to lunch on so many points it will take me a while to address them all. But I understand where he/she is coming from, because not everyone is expected to know the entire history and the truth of this extensive and rather pathetic story.

For now, until I can get my day organized... suffice it to say that back about 3 years ago Paul (aka: Hungryman) ran a design brokerage. Clients would order designs from him, he would then offer the work to a real designer who would do the work for a fee which usually amounted to about 50% of the total work order. In other words, the client would pay Paul say $2,000, and he would pay the designer $1,000 and pocket a thousand himself for basically doing nothing but the referral.

I would have no problem with that except for the fact that Paul often chose NOT to pay the designer, and after almost a year of them waiting for their money they had no recourse but to take it to the boards. There was a huge... HUGE outcry, a bitter argument went on for weeks. At this time I wasn't involved but watched from the sidelines, until a friend of mine admitted that she too was one of the designers owed a substantial amount of money. Hey, $1200 or $1500 may not be much to you or me, but to some people just breaking into the industry it can mean a lot.

At that point I read that Paul and the other design brokers involved (yes there were others!) were going to make this right finally. I waited 4 months...... then I acted. This was last year, I took up the issue for Rikki Lee and posted on about eight webmaster boards about Paul and one other designer who both owed Rikki Lee a chunk of money for her hard work that she did in good faith for them.

Her work remains in their portfolios..... not paid for.... to this day as far as I know.


So, we're at a year ago...... Both designers contact me and become reasonable and take a sensible tone with me..... smart. They both cry that they are broke and barely getting by. I, not wanted to squeeze blood out of anyone, sugges that they make small payments to Rikki Lee to at least show a modicum of good faith and lower the debt bit by bit. Can they afford maybe twenty bucks a month? I know people on welfare who can come up with a lousy twenty every month or at least every other month.

The other designer made one payment..... then nothing. He has now, as of yesterday, made arrangements to start paying again, there was a misunderstanding on both ends that Rikki Lee tells me is resolved.

As for Paul, he hasn't made good on his word, and hasn't paid Rikki Lee a penny of his debt. He all but cried to me on the phone that he still had no money, barely enough to live on, wasn't working, his sites weren't making him money etc etc etc, saying "if you trash me and I don't make any money how will I be able to pay her?"....
made sense at the time... but I have remained silent for a year and let him do whatever it is he does to earn money, and to this day not one fucking DIME has come her way from him. Do you think this is right?

If she were to charge him back interest (as most ocmpanies would) he would owe much more than he did almost 3 years ago. She has resigned herself to the fact that Paul will never pay her, but I'm not going to let him freely conduct business openly on this or any other webmaster forum without letting my fellow webmasters know what he has done to other good honest hard-working talented people in our business.


If you want to bury your head in the sand and ignore the truth and pretend mr Hungryman is a great guy, by all means delude yourselves. But don't presume to sit there and tell me I'm making a mistake.... If Paul can afford an attorney then he can afford to just cover this debt and make things right once and for all. You want to call my first post a rant? Unbelievable. I am honestly astounded by that. People, it's about doing what is RIGHT. Think about it some more, because you would feel vastly different if it was you who had been screwed over like this.

[Teen Angel]

Originally posted by Feynman
Beside, with respect to sliming him, if he doesn't get any clients because of your intervention, how do you expect him to pay you back ?

You obviously have no idea about this subject therefor really shoudlnt jump to his defense so eagerly.

Your quote above is quite obvious. I have been owed this moeny for almost 3 years now.... No matter how busy he gets he will not pay the peopel he owes. His debt is in the high thousands if not more. This is owed to at least 4 designers.

HE has since said in another board that I we basically need to sue him in order to get our money back. I think that simply states that he has no intention of paying anyone back and believes that in time people will forget.

So I really think your response was, in a nutshell, uneducated on the situation at hand.

HUNGRYMAN has had it rough on occassion I know. However he has left the people who tried to help him down and out. I myself have gone on to have a flourishing business in design since parting company with him. You will, in time, come to realise he is manipulative and deceiving.

[chodadog]

Originally posted by Feynman
Blah blah blah

I am reminded of a quote i heard a while ago.

"Isn't it dangerous to use one's entire vocabulary in a single sentence?"

Seriously. Given your vocabulary, i think it would be safe to assume that you're a fairly intelligent guy, but frankly, you don't know the history of the situation, and you're spouting a bunch of ignorant nonsense.

I can't speak on behalf of Teen Angel, but i do know that the other designer, who is a friend of mine, does not need the 1 thousand dollars that Hungryman owes him. He's done quite well for himself since then, and the entertainment value is worth much more than a grand.

And i say other designer because he's the only other designer i know for sure has been ripped off by Hungryman, and never been paid even after 2 years. There are other designers coming out of the woodwork making similar claims, but i don't know them, and obviously i can't vouch for them.

I'll give you the dirt on what he did to my friend, 'cause this is the only situation where i know all the details.

Hungry outsourced some work to him, and took a 50 percent cut. A ridiculously high number in my opinion, but both parties agreed to it, so that's not an issue. What is an issue is that the 50 percent my friend was going to be paid, turned out to be less than 50 percent of what hungry was charging for the design. My friend knows this because he spoke to the people that paid for the design after the fact.

So basically, Hungry was quoting 2 grand for a job, and telling the designer that it was a 1600 dollar job, and obviously only paying him 800 instead of 1000, as per the 50/50 deal. That's some shady shit. But it gets better (or worse, depending on whether you're talking about entertainment value or ethics). Hungry simply does not pay.. at all.

Now, i'm sure my friend won't mind me saying that at the time, he wasn't doing too well financially. Hungry totally fucked him over. He's not as confrontational as some of the other designers that were shafted, and i think he believed for a while that hungry would eventually pay him.

The designs that my friend did for Hungry, which he was never paid for, are still in the paysitedesign.com portfolio.

The last time this was brought up, Hungry was making promises left, right and centre. He was going to pay the debt back in installments. Never happened. This particular designer even said he'd give the money to charity if hungryman ever paid it, in an effort to get at least some good from a shitty situation, and maybe even give hungry a shred of credibility. Even then, hungry did not pay. He just avoided the issue.

You say that we're hampering his efforts to pay the designers back by hurting his business. Let me remind you that it has been almost two years since all this shit happened. Two fucking years. And it has been a year or so since it was last brought up. You honestly think he hasn't made enough money to pay these good folks back in all that time? You're the one that says he's doing work for some big players. Fuck, what does he charge per gallery? Something insane like 50 bucks?

Hungry is far more concerned with his image than he is with business ethics. Case in point: Near the height of all this drama, he was paying for a limo to pick up some people from the airport. Remember, thsi is when he owed several people a combined total of several thousands of dollars. He's all about image, which is ironic, given what a fat miserable fuck he is.

Anyways. Thanks for taking the time to write such a long reply to the thread. Just a pity it was full of horseshit.

[-=HUNGRYMAN=-]

OK ... here is my long reply too ... but don't worry it will be my last.

BTW Chowdadog ... what program/site do you run ?? :eek:

And an FYI ... $50 is not insane AT ALL for a good gallery... it is taking pride in my work, and knowing that it is going to get accepted everywhere, have a great fucking CTR, and if you chose your sponsors wisely, is gonna convert quite nicely. Going rates for a 468x60 banner is between $25 and $35, so how the fuck do you figure a full page gallery is insanely priced at $50 ????? It is not my fault that most designers don't take pride in their work, and will cut off their nose despite their face, just to undercut the next guy ...

Anybody wanting to check out MY GALLERIES (meaning designed by MYSELF chowdapuppy ....), may check out my newly updated portfolio with over 100 sample galleries at http://www.PAYSITE-GALLERIES.com

OK ... now where was I ?? Oh yeah ...

Originally posted by Fluid


it's only deframation if they're lying and you can prove it with records of payment.

thank you very much

I was only an employee of PENSFAN, and left holding the smoking gun... (and BTW the fucker still owes me $615 USD too, but I have long since accepted that I will never see that. How many times did I create a major spectacle about that though .... NONE!)

At this time yes my job was sales ... and Pensfan (along with Ricki Lee, Nemanja, Amputate Your Head, Quashe, Kelly, and I think a couple more desingers too), was in charge of the designs ....

I did sales and brought in new contracts. I was paid a flat rate each week. Period.

I was often left to deligate the work to the designers ... but Pensfan (aka Buck Naked, aka Bibiluv, aka Traci Carlson, aka Duane Hanson) controlled the purse strings ... I will rot in hell before I will pay somebody elses debt ... esp. when I live from month to month myself ? Yeah OK. I even helped Ricki Lee try to get payments from Duane (or Pensfan, Buck Naked, Traci ... whatever he goes by), for well over a year, (C'mon Ricki - call me a liar again!), and yet this is what I get!!!!!

Everybody has almost all but forgotten about Duane, as he is no longer around or visible on the boards anyways ... but my fucking reputaion has been dragged thru the mud countless fucking times!!

A comment was made on one of the boards about me being so STUPID to keep coming back for more .... It is not a matter of stupidity. I don't have anything to hide from.

Yes I did use Ricki for I think 3, maybe 4 personal projects at the same time, and yes my paperwork is in perfect order for those payments ... anybody's lawyer who wishes to inspect them may do so, but I will be fucked if I am going to post anything to a public forum ... Everybody is going to have to look elsewhere for their entertainment. Sorry. ( I hear there is this place called GO FUCK YOURSELF is supposed to be pretty good entertainment...)

OH ... I hear that "chasing PPL from board to board to board" might be added as an event to the 2008 Summer Olympics. :D

In closing I will further state that yes, while under Duane Hansen's employ, I did NOT design the designs, (nor was it my job to do so ...) but for at least the past year, I have run solo ... that means ME, MYSELF, and I. Anybody who wishes to come and watch me at work is more than welcome to do so ... just phone ahead so I can tidy up a bit.

I have had my final say on this issue.

[Teen Angel]

Originally posted by -=HUNGRYMAN=-
Yes I did use Ricki for I think 3, maybe 4 personal projects at the same time, and yes my paperwork is in perfect order for those payments ... anybody's lawyer who wishes to inspect them may do so, but I will be fucked if I am going to post anything to a public forum ... Everybody is going to have to look elsewhere for their entertainment. Sorry. ( I hear there is this place called GO FUCK YOURSELF is supposed to be pretty good entertainment...)

3-4 personal jobs?
YOU IDIOT! I have 19 folders of different jobs here! ns your books are in perfect order? They must be cos yes you did pay me for about 3-4 jobs. That is correct! what about the other 15-16 jobs I did for you?!
Yes I am admitting what a bloody idiot I was in continuing to do work for you when obviosly you were not paying. I was naieve and you totally took advantage of that!

Paul, I want you to say here and now straight up, if I will see my money or not?

[-=HUNGRYMAN=-]

Nice how you chose to quote THAT paragraph ... yet totally ignored the one where I ask you to call me a liar - that I did not help you for much more than a year to get money out of Duane or whoever he is now??

Why not send your entourage after him?
I guess it is easier to give me the shakedown, as I am still very visible on the boards ?

:bonk:

[Teen Angel]

Yes you did try to help me for a year... I didnt deny it. and I thank you for that.
HOWEVER...

I am ignoring him because he is actually PAYING! There is no need to "get an entourage after him"...

I simply want to know if you will pay me what you owe. I am really quite hurt by this Paul. I totally trusted you...

[-=HUNGRYMAN=-]

So ... hold on here ... if he is "actually paying" (which is not what your virtual boyfriend CDSmith has been saying ...) Where is the problem?

Tell him he still owes me $615 too ... and ask whatever happened to that domain he was supposed to transfer to me ?? (HOTWEBMISSTRESSES.COM)

Thanks!

[Teen Angel]

pensfan and my arrangments are none of your business.

Please just answer me if you are able to pay me? Even in installments?

[Teen Angel]

pensfan and my arrangments are none of your business.

Please just answer me if you are able to pay me? Even in installments?

[StuartD]

the number of views this thread has is quite amazing.

[cool1]

Originally posted by StuartD
the number of views this thread has is quite amazing.

Lots of views, but not so many posts.

[Teen Angel]

Sorry guys. I had never intended this to be such a drama! As you can see hugnryman is making everything ten times worse!

[cdsmith]

I really do not care about all this "he said - she said" crap. I don't care about conventions or peripheral dammages. To me Paul, most of your replies here or on other boards have been mostly about little side arguments, about who paid the rent, about who moved in with whom.


I don't care.



This is about the money you owe Ricki Lee. Period.

Here are the facts...
Last year when I called you out publicly you phoned me. FACT
During that phone call you admitted that you owed her over $1000 US. FACT
You confided that you had no money. FACT
You all but cried about your situation at the time. FACT
I offered you a way to pay that debt in small increments. FACT
You then said your sites and business income were too small. FACT
I offered to help you with your TGP. FACT
I offered to back off from making this even more public so you could earn some money. FACT
You knew full well that in earning said money you would use it to make payments to Rikki Lee. FACT
You gave me your word on the above. fucking FACT.


Now you're going to sit there and deny all debt to Rikki Lee? I don't think so. If you want to get all bent out of shape and play the riteous martyr, go for it Paul. There are some pretty respected people... a lot of them actually, on the boards who are corroborating what I have said, and a lot who are coming forward with their own details of you owing them money as well. Who is the community at large going to believe... you? If they do they do so at their own risk.

Repeat: if anyone is fooled by Paul, aka: -=HUNGRYMAN=-, formerly known as "Brianna", you do so at your own risk, your own peril.



Paul, just start paying on the debt to RL and I will happily leave you alone. That is all, I have no other motive or agenda against you or anyone. In other circumstances I could have continued liking you Paul, as I did once, because you seem like an otherwise likeable guy...... but I simply cannot abide by anyone screwing over people I have come to know and respect in this business, good people, trusting people.

The only one who can end this sad situation Paul is you.

[Don Soporno]

Originally posted by Teen Angel
Sorry guys. I had never intended this to be such a drama! As you can see hugnryman is making everything ten times worse!


LOLOLOLOL.....anytime someone takes something to a board they intend for there to be drama

[Duane AKA Pensfan]

Originally posted by -=HUNGRYMAN=-
So ... hold on here ... if he is "actually paying" (which is not what your virtual boyfriend CDSmith has been saying ...) Where is the problem?

Tell him he still owes me $615 too ... and ask whatever happened to that domain he was supposed to transfer to me ?? (HOTWEBMISSTRESSES.COM)

Thanks!

Interesting...

Ya know I hate message boards... I enjoy reading them but 90% of the time when I post or try to be a board whore it blows up in my face, and I end up regretting it. So I don't post, I do my thing and try to make up for the mistakes of being excessivly ambitious, most of the time it getting the best of me...

BTW I am paying angel 50 bucks a month, if there are any other people I owe money to that want the same deal send me an email at bucknaked@buckgear.net and we can get that set up... I haven't had much money at all for the last year and a half after leaving adult.com but I will make it right...
Hell it may only end up being 20 bucks a month but it's better than nothing is what cd says;)

So let me get this straight Paul... You are saying that when you were taking advantage of all these designers, angel for a ton of projects, and also posting Danevans work in your portfolio that I helped him develop and paid him, for that you were working for me?

So when did all this happen? Cuz you haven't worked for me for years paul. When I tried to help you out cuz you were the laughing stock of the adult web over the brianna fiasco. you didn't do shit except spend all your time trying to make yourself rich when I was sending you what little money I had.

My fucking debts are my debts, I made my own, and the fact that you're trying to say that you're debts are mine or traci's is fucking rediculous...

If I had a lawyer could I get him to sue you for slander and defamation? You're a fucking joke and a crook, which is ironic that people think I'm a crook yet I am calling you one, so you must be a real fucker...

And for you to try and say that I am traci when you've talked to her on the phone is fucking stupid man... Leave her out of this, she's doing her thing away from this zoo and is very happy.

Now about me owing you money? Are you fucking retarded? I have done nothing but give everything I had to you... I drove 5 hours to Erie Pennsylvania paid for dinner for you and your deadbeat family's ass AND gave you a computer since yours died, which you in turn traded in for a new one without telling me.

As far as hotwebmistresses, I paid for it, it was in my directnic account, I let it go and it's in a better place so fucking deal with it.

So paul you wanna talk shit like I'm gonna lay down and take the blame for your cons, I don't think so... Did I ever own part of your design business? Amp did me a favor back when he liked me and designed the original paysitedesign.com for you so you would go on your way and leave me alone, and you actually had the nuts to show it off to him as your own...

AHAHAHAHAAHAHA! You are a tool, and people like DaneEvans, Angel and cd smith will haunt you till you die.

Just as they haunt me if I don't do what I say I am going to do.

Like I said in the beginning, I ain't blaming anyone for the debts I've incurred and the mistakes I've made. They are mine alone...

So there you have it. Why would I lie? I am already out like a gay guy in san francisco.

Paul you are the one that is delusional enough to think that this stuff means nothing and you can go about your business like you've done nothing wrong, not me...

That's all I have to say, I'm sure Paul, You'll come back with some blah blah blah it's never my fault, I was abducted by aliens, everyone loves me bullshit...

Whatever man, your wife leaving you wasn't your fault either even though she warned you for 5 months to get off your fat ass and get a job to support your family.

Why would this whole mess be your fault either?


PEACE I'M OUTTA HERE!

Duane AKA PENSFAN

[chodadog]

Originally posted by -=HUNGRYMAN=-
And an FYI ... $50 is not insane AT ALL for a good gallery...

You're right. $50 is not insane for a good gallery. However, it is insane for one of your galleries.

Originally posted by -=HUNGRYMAN=-
I will rot in hell before I will pay somebody elses debt

As i already asked on Porno Junkies. If this is the case, why is it that you even offered to pay bhutocracy for the work he did for you if "you will rot in hell before you pay somebody elses debt."

You are lying. You are a liar. You always have been, and you always will be. Your story doesn't add up. There are way too many inconsistencies. It's hard enough for you to keep your lies straight in a single thread. Don't even try it over the space of a couple of years, you stupid fuck.

[chodadog]

By the way Hungry:

Are you claiming that the techie media and pr bucks websites were done while you and Duane still had a business relationship?

And ask yourself, would someone be asking this question if they didn't already know the answer?

[cdsmith]

As you can see here Paul, your business is hurting by the minute. Anytime you want to change your tone with me and begin making this right I'm here.


If you've somehow misplaced my icq, here it is: 31024634


If you have gathered new clients and are cultivating new business, it doesn't have to all be ruined. Your best solution is so simple. It is right in front of you, within your grasp.


Just pay what you owe.


As of present, the designs you haven't paid for, you stole. C'mon Paul, your new persona isn't really a thief is he?

[chodadog]

Anyways. Some of you might wonder why i'm even involved in this. I wasn't involved in any of the dealings. A friend of mine was. Bhutocracy designed the Techie Media website, as well as some other work. Let me give you some details about how the deal went down.

Hungryman got the job to do the techie media website, and contacted bhutocracy to do it for him. By the way, this was apparently because he didn't have enough time to do the work on his own, 'cause he had so much work, but given his financial status, i think it's safe to assume that this is a bunch of bollocks, and the real reason is that he is a hack designer.

Anyways. Hungry tells Bhuto that the design is going to cost 1000 dollars, and his cut will be 500 dollars, as per their 50/50 arrangement.

Hungryman charges techie media 2500 bucks for the job. Pretty fucking shady, huh? How does bhutocracy know this? Because Jim/Lightning told him so. That's how. When Jim contacted bhutocracy to update one of the flash pieces, bhuto asked when jim was going to pay for the job, 'cause he hadn't been paid yet, and had obviously assumed that HM hadn't been paid either. This is when Jim informs bhuto that he has in fact paid HM... the full $2500.

Oh, and don't forget the bonus that Jim paid Hungryman 'cause he liked the site so much. Of course, hungry didn't mention that to Andrew.

So now you've probably realised how much of a thieving fuckwit Paul really is. Christ, 500 bucks out of $2500+ when they had a 50/50 arrangement? That's fucking outrageous! But wait, it gets worse.

Bhutocracy never even received the $500.

Not one cent out of over $2500.

To this day, the work that bhutocracy did for Hungryman is still in paysitedesign.com's portfolio. I can see Paul's reluctance to remove the work. The techie media website is far and away one of the best items in the portfolio.

Hungryman will tell you a bunch of lies. He'll tell you that bhutocracy only did the flash, but bhutocracy has the original PSD files. All Hungryman did was take the sliced images and flash files that bhuto made, and whack them together in HTML, which any ape can do. No more than half an hours worth of work. Possibly an hour if you're mildly retarded.

For that, he thinks he's entitled to over $2500.

For Hungry's story to be true, both bhutocracy and jim/lightning must be lying. Both of them are successful and respected. Jim has no possible reason to lie, as he has nothing to lose or to gain from the situation. He is a completely innocent party.

Time to 'fess up, hungryman. Your lies don't add up.

[chodadog]

I don't even understand how someone can fuck up this kind of arrangement. You receive your payment, and the very moment you get it, you pass on what is owed to the other party. You hold onto that money for as short as possible, to minimise the chances of you fucking something up and putting yourself in a position where you can't pay that person.

Seems like whenever Hungryman has a spare bit of cash, he liks to buy champagne and rent limos. Big fuckin' pimp player he is.

[bhutocracy]

I just want a few words in private with HM.

[cdsmith]

Originally posted by chodadog
I don't even understand how someone can fuck up this kind of arrangement. You receive your payment, and the very moment you get it, you pass on what is owed to the other party. You hold onto that money for as short as possible, to minimise the chances of you fucking something up and putting yourself in a position where you can't pay that person. Exactly. It galls me to no end that someone would disregard all ethics both business and personal and just pocket the money that rightfully belongs to someone else. If some people are sitting out there still wondering why I'm posting this thread on several boards, that's one of the reasons right there.


Today I will be compiling a list of all those who have a claim with Paul/Hungryman. People will be able to see at a glance just what the scope of the issue is.

[-=HUNGRYMAN=-]

Then have Jim (not some imposter either) come and tell me and everybody else that he paid $2500 ("cash in hand" at a convention even) for Techiemedia.

Jim is a very shrewd businessman, but in my dealings with him,I believe he is not a liar, and probably wants to remove himself and his company as far as possible from being involved in this he said she said ...

Involving specific clients by name in any of this is totally unprofessional and uncalled for.

I'm out.

[chodadog]

Originally posted by -=HUNGRYMAN=-
Then have Jim (not some imposter either) come and tell me and everybody else that he paid $2500 ("cash in hand" at a convention even) for Techiemedia.

Jim is a very shrewd businessman, but in my dealings with him,I believe he is not a liar, and probably wants to remove himself and his company as far as possible from being involved in this he said she said ...

Involving specific clients by name in any of this is totally unprofessional and uncalled for.

I'm out.

Oh shut the fuck up, you tool. Bhuto already said that he made a mistake and assumed you had had a face to face meeting with jim, based on what he had said on ICQ. Just read something wrong, basically. Does not change that Jim has told both Bhuto AND CDSmith that he paid you $2500 for the design.

I'm sure Jim won't mind getting the truth out there. Techie Media is not looking any worse for wear due to this whole saga, because everyone realises that they are a completely innocent party, despite the fact that you're trying to push the idea that we're insinuating otherwise.

How does it feel for your lies to finally catch up with you?

[cdsmith]

Lightning Jim confirmed to me last night that he indeed paid $2500 for the techiemedia.com design that Bhutocracy did.


Paul, your evasiveness and lies are going to strangle your business if you continue like this. I don't want to see that happen, but if you force my hand I will carry on speading the truth about you. You called this a "shakedown" on another thread. Paul, this is far from a shakedown. This is about you not paying for the hard work of others, it is about you reneging on business agreements and leaving some good people high and dry. Let's call it what it really is Paul. Let's be real here.




NOTE TO ALL: Anyone having a claim against Hungryman needs to contact me today. Provide details of your claims, amounts owed, and any other pertinant details you can recall about the work you did. If you have email or ICQ records of anything Paul said that would show he was aware of the debt or agreed to pay you, please save those files/emails now.

contact me:

admin at cdsmodels dot com
31024634

[cdsmith]

Let me make something perfectly clear for everyone. There is no malicious intent on my part, I have no hidden personal agenda for taking this issue public. This isn't some sort of "shakedown" as Hungryman has suggested on other threads. It is simply about fixing something that is wrong, it is about making things right and doing what is right.

Newsflash: weather Paul is your friend or not, cheating designers out of their rightfully earned fees is wrong. Period. No one with any level of sanity can argue with that.

I do not wish to have to organize a lawsuit if it can be helped, but as of now I am certainly exploring that option. I would rather see that Paul has come to his senses and has decided to simply cover his debts and that will be that.

If any of you consider yourselves to be Paul's friend, I suggest instead of coming on here and scoffing at me or sitting by silently you try urging your friend to honor his debts, and this will all go away. If you are truly a friend to him then BE a friend and help encourage him to do what is right.

[Vid Vicious]

Feynman .. do us all a favour and shut that Verbal Diarea Mouth of yours ...

Do not speak of anything you don't know about .. Keep in mind your basing your information on the lies that Paul told you .. How can All the Webmasters he has screwed be wrong ...

It sees that you and Paul seem to think that there is a conspiracy agaisnt him .. He's a fuckin angel that never did any wrong to any one .. GROW UP ... THis has been going on for years. And will contuinue to go on well after your out of the picture .. OS please do us all a favour and do what you do best .. BLOW

[cdsmith]

Day 4 since I asked Hungryman to honor his debts. The adventure continues, as he has chosen to hide and evade rather than own up to his past mistakes.


I will continue to do what needs to be done.

[Panky]

CD Smith, I'm sure I'm not the only one who is getting a bit annoyed, but this is my personal opinion.

I choose to participate on certain boards because they do not contain the 3 ring circus of GFY. I know of at least 3 boards that I routinely participate on, that you have brought the GFY mentality to, including XNations.

It's getting really annoying.

___________________________________________

As a mod, I have the responsibility of keeping the members happy. I know the members here. The members here have set the standards themselves as to what is acceptable behavior and what is not. We pride ourselves in the fact XNations does not contain the keyboard warrior GFY mentality. It's my responsibility to insure the friendly atmosphere continues.

This type of behavior is not welcomed here on XNations.

[Funbrunette]

I've tried to stay out of it...I let it go for a while, but it is getting a bit ridiculous. Can we kiss and make up? :huh:

If you can prove to me that you've agreed to resolve this issue like men (I must have proof...like a picture) I promise to post a picture of my breasts (that should get Emanuelle going...lol) isn't that a great incentive?!?

Game on? :D

[webgurl]

Originally posted by cool1
Lots of views, but not so many posts.

i'm just noisy , i have nothing to say and don't really know whats going on , However i read the HungryMan Issue Last Year , so i guess the SEGA continues .........

[chodadog]

Originally posted by Panky
CD Smith, I'm sure I'm not the only one who is getting a bit annoyed, but this is my personal opinion.

I choose to participate on certain boards because they do not contain the 3 ring circus of GFY. I know of at least 3 boards that I routinely participate on, that you have brought the GFY mentality to, including XNations.

It's getting really annoying.

___________________________________________

As a mod, I have the responsibility of keeping the members happy. I know the members here. The members here have set the standards themselves as to what is acceptable behavior and what is not. We pride ourselves in the fact XNations does not contain the keyboard warrior GFY mentality. It's my responsibility to insure the friendly atmosphere continues.

This type of behavior is not welcomed here on XNations.

This annoys you? A few people looking out for their friends that have been ripped off for thousands of dollars? What is acceptable behaviour on Xnations? By silencing us, you're basically condoning Hungryman's actions.

I see a lot of talk about how this should have been handled privately, and i would totally agree, had all attempts to handle this privately not already been exhausted. You need to remembre that this entire fiasco has been going on for over two years. Hungryman makes a lot of promises, but he never makes good.

There are no keyboard warriot antics going on. We're just letting everyone know what Hungryman is all about. It is a fair warning to other designers and potential clients alike.

[cdsmith]

Originally posted by chodadog
This annoys you? A few people looking out for their friends that have been ripped off for thousands of dollars? What is acceptable behaviour on Xnations? By silencing us, you're basically condoning Hungryman's actions.

I see a lot of talk about how this should have been handled privately, and i would totally agree, had all attempts to handle this privately not already been exhausted. You need to remembre that this entire fiasco has been going on for over two years. Hungryman makes a lot of promises, but he never makes good.

There are no keyboard warriot antics going on. We're just letting everyone know what Hungryman is all about. It is a fair warning to other designers and potential clients alike. I'm really sorry you are annoyed Jennifer, but that really is beside the point. Like I've told other friends of Paul's, you would be showing yourself as more of a friend to him by urging him to honor his debts and honoring his word.

People need to know about Paul, period. Maybe some regular posters are a bit tired of hearing about it, but no one is forcing them to click on my threads are they? No.

All I'm doing is telling the truth. I have no hidden agenda here. I just want Paul to do what is right. What we ALL KNOW is right.

You are attempting to liken this cause to "GFY drama".... that is not the case at all. I simply want this issue resolved, no more no less. It is up to Paul as to when it gets resolved, he can decide to become more agreeable and sensible at any time, but so far he has exhibited only arrogance, defiance, and evasiveness. As long as he takes that kind of attitude I have no choice but to continue letting people know about this issue.

[chodadog]

We're keeping the discussion limited to one thread. We're not hounding every one of his posts. We're not out to change the atmosphere of the board.

[cdsmith]

Originally posted by Funbrunette
I've tried to stay out of it...I let it go for a while, but it is getting a bit ridiculous. Can we kiss and make up? :huh:

If you can prove to me that you've agreed to resolve this issue like men (I must have proof...like a picture) I promise to post a picture of my breasts (that should get Emanuelle going...lol) isn't that a great incentive?!?

Game on? :D FB, I'm usually in a more joking mood on other topics, but on this one I'll say that it is nothing to make light of. It is a sensitive issue that I have tried to handle privately in the past. I was forced to briefly take it to the boards just over a year ago, after which Paul became cooperative and fully agreed to honor his debts to the designers involved. I even offered him help with his TGP which he happily accepted. I have extensive ICQ logs saved that corroborate this.

I remained silent and gave him the past year to make payments to Rikki Lee like he promised he would. He made zero payments to her over that time. Instead he chose to just think that it would all just "go away" magically. I'm sorry, but it doesn't work that way. You can't rip people off and then go on about your merry way and continue to do business in this community without someone standing up and calling you on it. Well, I'm calling him on it, and it should come as no shock to him, because I told him this would happen if he reneged on his agreements again.

It isn't about some beef between he and myself. It can't be settled with a hug and a handshake. I wish it were that simple. He can, however, put an end to this at any time.

[Panky]

I have no problem with a few people looking out for other people in the business and needing to spread the word about who to do business with and who not to.

If I wanted to silence you, I simply could have deleted all this entire thread and every thread after that at the slightest mention of your mission. But, guess what, I left it run.

I simply became annoyed for the fact that it wasn't other XNations members jumping in here and bumping your thread. It was mostly you and other people who joined here for no other reason than to give your mission some support. To me, that showed that the majority of XNations could really care less about what is going on. If they did, they would have posted and stated what they thought.

I have remained neutral throughout this whole thing, simply because this issue happened years ago, even before I knew Hungryman or used his services. I also know there is multiple sides to a story and I have no idea of knowing what is the truth and what is not. I wasn't there when this whole thing was taking place. I don't have inside knowledge. I know what you have said. I know what Paul has said.

But see now, I'm a bad person. You feel the need to start jumping in and attacking me simply because I carried PaySite Design in my sig. I've read the crap at PJ's. I'm sure it's bound to hit all the other boards in a few hours. I have removed my sig, but that isn't good enough for you. I'm still a target to you simply because I once carried his sig and used his services.

Besides, what the hell does my personal life have anything to do with this?

How the hell can I suddenly be responsible for someone elses actions that happened way before I ever knew him?

I just can't believe that you would stoop so low as to start attacking me. I have nothing to do with this stuff. But, I'm not in the cool crowd simply because I haven't posted and given you my support for your mission. I just didn't feel the need to jump on the bandwagon and be a part of something that I have no idea what is truth and what is lies from the parties involved. But, that makes me a bad person.

[cdsmith]

Originally posted by Panky
If I wanted to silence you, I simply could have deleted all this entire thread and every thread after that at the slightest mention of your mission. But, guess what, I left it run. Should I thank you for allowing free speech and the truth to reign free? If so... thank you. To me, that showed that the majority of XNations could really care less about what is going on. If they did, they would have posted and stated what they thought.Maybe most of the regulars here are shying away because they know of your personal ties to Paul? Ya think?

Judging by the page views this thread is getting, they are reading it at any rate. Originally posted by Panky
But see now, I'm a bad person. You feel the need to start jumping in and attacking me simply because I carried PaySite Design in my sig. I've read the crap at PJ's. I'm sure it's bound to hit all the other boards in a few hours. I have removed my sig, but that isn't good enough for you. I'm still a target to you simply because I once carried his sig and used his services. See, that's where you are wrong Jennifer. I've always like you and have had no problems with you, you know that. I am not attacking you at all. What I am doing is identifying your nickname as being one that sometimes promotes Paul's business. Why am I doin that? Because people need to know how to identify Paul's business so they know to avoid it. People easily forget, especially when faced with someone other than "hungryman" telling them to hire him.

I have not said one harsh thing about you personally other than identifying you as an active promoter of "Hungryman". That will never change, I won't start slinging insults your way arbitrarily. That isn't my style nor is it my focus. All I want is for Paul to clear his debt thus honoring the word he gave to me last year.

Originally posted by Panky
Besides, what the hell does my personal life have anything to do with this? Show me the post of where your personal life was attacked and I will deal with the person. But remember, if you are going to promote Paul or take his side in any way, people need to know the whole truth, and that includes them knowing that you have a personal interest in this because you are his girlfriend.

Originally posted by Panky
How the hell can I suddenly be responsible for someone elses actions that happened way before I ever knew him? You aren't, and I'm not saying you are responsible.

Originally posted by Panky
I just can't believe that you would stoop so low as to start attacking me. I have nothing to do with this stuff. But, I'm not in the cool crowd simply because I haven't posted and given you my support for your mission. I just didn't feel the need to jump on the bandwagon and be a part of something that I have no idea what is truth and what is lies from the parties involved. But, that makes me a bad person. Again, I'm not attacking you. All I have done is identify you as
A) someone who promotes Hungryman,
and B) Hungryman's girlfriend.
I have not said anything that is not true, and have not cast any disparaging remarks in your direction.
I'm not "stooping" to anything.
I am simply taking a hard stance on thievery. If you truly don't know the facts as you say, why not go read the thread on GFY, ignoring the posts of those that aren't involved directly and focusing in on the comments of the designers themselves? It's all there. It won't eat up most of your day to read.

Here is the link: http://board.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=250118

Paul has been caught in several lies on that thread alone. No one can argue with the proof, it is hard to disbelieve so many people. I spoke to people like Lightning who are trusted and well-respected in this community, and he confirms the allegations made by Bhutocracy, you can contact Lightning on ICQ and confirm this yourself. Then there is the designers who have the original files of work that they were not paid for or paid lower than appropriate amounts for. The person that hired them was Paul, and that was AFTER Paul and Pensfan has parted ways.


How anyone can read all that and still be confused as to what the deal is here is beyond me.


How many ways can I say this Jennifer? If you want this to end, if you are truly a friend to Paul, you will urge him to do the right thing and honor his debt and be a man about this, and it will all be over. I will even post public notices that he has paid his debts if you want.


I am not hard to find, let me know if you can get Paul to come to his senses....

31024634
admin at cdsmodels dot com

[Panky]

I'm well aware of everything that is going on.

Yes, at one point I have carried PaySite Design in my sig. One of the reasons was, I didn't have anything of my own to carry in my sig.

The point is, you made a reference on PJ's that anytime a post gets brought up, I will be included in it as well because I am his girlfriend and at one point promoted his services.

What that does, is it will taint peoples minds. They will start judging me, not on my own merits, but simply because of my relationship.

I have removed all my sigs after this whole thing has begun, simply because I didn't want to be associated with this. I made the decision to no longer promote PaySite Design. I would appreciate from this point on, you keep my name out of this stuff.

This is between the designers and Paul. I was never a part of it. This stuff happened way before I even knew Paul. There's no reason for my name to be brought into this. The sig is removed. I don't promote PaySite Design, so just leave it at that.

[chodadog]

Panky, i don't think anyone is attacking you. I think CD was just pointing out that someone had decided to do something about a signautre pointing to paysitedesign/paysite-galleries. The email would have been the same regardless of who's signature it was, and CD's posting of it didn't come across as a personal attack, to me at least.

I'm sure that wasn't his intent. He just wanted to show that some people are waking up to Hungry's actions and are taking some action (minor as it may be).

And yes, there are two sides to every story. I've made bhutocracy's side abundantly clear. Did work. Received no payment whatsoever. I don't see how Hungryman's side of the story could differ at all. Besides, he won't even tell us his side of the story. He seems to dismiss it, and is expecting people to believe it just didn't happen.

I'd love to see the records that indicate hungry paid $1250 for that job to bhutocracy, or even the $500 when he lied to bhuto about the cost of the job. He didn't receive a cent. Not one.

Doesn't matter how old the situation is. It still hasn't been sorted, and that means the problem is still a current one.

[cdsmith]

Originally posted by Panky
I'm well aware of everything that is going on.

Yes, at one point I have carried PaySite Design in my sig. One of the reasons was, I didn't have anything of my own to carry in my sig.

The point is, you made a reference on PJ's that anytime a post gets brought up, I will be included in it as well because I am his girlfriend and at one point promoted his services.

What that does, is it will taint peoples minds. They will start judging me, not on my own merits, but simply because of my relationship.

I have removed all my sigs after this whole thing has begun, simply because I didn't want to be associated with this. I made the decision to no longer promote PaySite Design. I would appreciate from this point on, you keep my name out of this stuff.

This is between the designers and Paul. I was never a part of it. This stuff happened way before I even knew Paul. There's no reason for my name to be brought into this. The sig is removed. I don't promote PaySite Design, so just leave it at that.
No, what I meant by that was that every time I see anyone promoting Paul or Paul's sites I will identify that person. No more, no less. If there are a few posts of yours still lingering around on other boards where you have openly recommended Paul, I will very likely find them and post something to let people know the truth, if I haven't already.

I am not trying to be unfair, but make no mistake about it, if you promote a thief then in my view that means you support his theivery. I will therefore publicly identify anyone that I find promoting him or defending him or supporting him in any way. If you want to distance yourself from this, then start by helping me to end this as quickly as possible. I strongly urge his close friends to help him out by urging him to do the right thing by these designers who trusted him.

[cdsmith]

I have no idea of knowing what is the truth and what is not.
I'm well aware of everything that is going on.
It is these conflicting statements that has me a bit confused btw.



I don't intend to attack you or anyone. This isn't about attacking, it is about people knowing the truth. If you say you are no longer promoting him then you have nothing to worry about.

[Funbrunette]

Originally posted by cdsmith
FB, I'm usually in a more joking mood on other topics, but on this one I'll say that it is nothing to make light of. It is a sensitive issue that I have tried to handle privately in the past. I was forced to briefly take it to the boards just over a year ago, after which Paul became cooperative and fully agreed to honor his debts to the designers involved. I even offered him help with his TGP which he happily accepted. I have extensive ICQ logs saved that corroborate this.

I remained silent and gave him the past year to make payments to Rikki Lee like he promised he would. He made zero payments to her over that time. Instead he chose to just think that it would all just "go away" magically. I'm sorry, but it doesn't work that way. You can't rip people off and then go on about your merry way and continue to do business in this community without someone standing up and calling you on it. Well, I'm calling him on it, and it should come as no shock to him, because I told him this would happen if he reneged on his agreements again.

It isn't about some beef between he and myself. It can't be settled with a hug and a handshake. I wish it were that simple. He can, however, put an end to this at any time.

I know...I was just trying to lighten things up! :(

[Panky]

What right do you have to post my name on GFY?

You posted on GFY that Paul uses the name of Panky to post. WTF? I am the only one who uses my name.

You said in a previous post here that as long as I don't carry his sig and promote his services, I had nothing to worry about, but then my name appears stating that Hungryman uses my name.

WTF? I am not going to have my name ruined because of this stuff. I had nothing at all to do with this. These things happened way before I even knew or had a relationship with him.

Do you not understand that I am not responsible for his actions?

I removed my sig and stopped promoting him, but this isn't good enough for you. You feel the need to drag me into it. I never asked for this shit, nor do I deserve it.

All I want is to be left alone. I can't help you. This shit is not my problem and I should not have to pay for it. I can't have things tainted because of something someone else did.

Just leave me out of it! This isn't my fault. You have no right to lump my name into this because I once carried his sig. I stopped carrying his sig when I became aware of all this, but still you just can't let me be.

I'm guilty for being associated with him and it's bullshit. If I had done something to you on a personal or business level, that is one thing, but I never had.

I am my own person. Hungryman is not me. Just leave me the hell out of this.

[cdsmith]

I had already made that post before you brought it up here.

I did not say that paul uses your name to post. Let's keep our facts straight.
What the post says is this:
--------------------------------
"Nicknames that have been promoting Hungryman's business lately include:

paul1000
panky
-=HUNGRYMAN=-"
----------------------------------


The name "panky" appears on several other boards, you have made posts to others to recommend Paul for design work. I told you in my above post that I will identify all nicks that promote or recommend him to others. I don't want other designers to lose work because of any confusion about who is who.


Sorry, but I knew going into this that there would be some collateral dammage, but I think in your case it will be minimal. Remember Jennifer, I didn't cause all this to happen, Paul did.


Let's try that again....

Jennifer, I did not cause all this. PAUL did.


I won't mention your name or your nick in any further posts.

I do have trouble believing that you have no influence over Paul though. You just said "this shit is not my problem"..... I disagree. It is ALL of our problem, including you. Instead of telling me you are "annoyed" by my posts and yelling at me for pointing out that you have promoted Paul in past posts, you should be outraged by the blatant thievery he pulled on these designers, you should be OUTRAGED that his decietfulness is now causing you grief, and you should be yelling at him to do the right thing to make this go away.

If that doesn't happen soon, just know that the designers are going to send their proof of copyright infringement to Paul's host and if necessary thier upstream provider, and also Paul's ISP. We are going to try and have him shut down. I will also be talking with more of his past clients, because some of them are displaying what now amounts to stolen graphics. They are not going to be pleased. If you talk to Paul please make him understand that we are not playing around here, these are no longer just idle threats, it WILL happen. I intend to see this through to whatever end can be attained. Why? Because what Paul did was wrong, that's why.

I'm not just urging you, I am urging anyone that considers Paul a friend to try and get him to own up to his responsibility and pay these designers what he owes them.

[cdsmith]

Originally posted by Funbrunette
I was just trying to lighten things up! :( I know..... and I would normally appreciate it, especially since you well know that you have always been one of my favorites.

I just wish that on this one issue I would see more people stating their opposition and outrage to the kind of thievery that has been described here. On ICQ everyone is vocal and supportive, but although there have been many good posts on various boards decrying Paul's behaviour, there needs to be more. He needs to see multitudes of webmasters and industry people stepping up and saying in no uncertain terms that what he did was wrong.

[Funbrunette]

Originally posted by cdsmith
I know..... and I would normally appreciate it, especially since you well know that you have always been one of my favorites.

I just wish that on this one issue I would see more people stating their opposition and outrage to the kind of thievery that has been described here. On ICQ everyone is vocal and supportive, but although there have been many good posts on various boards decrying Paul's behaviour, there needs to be more. He needs to see multitudes of webmasters and industry people stepping up and saying in no uncertain terms that what he did was wrong.

To be honest with you CD, I've tried to stay away from this one on purpose. I've made it my mission not to talk about it with anyone! I don't really know the story and quite frankly I haven't even really read the post I skimmed through it only because it's my responsibility as a moderator and owner of the board. Seems a lot of people are getting hurt and as much as I can be a bitch I don't like that! If I had one opinion it would be that Jennifer is her own person and should not be sucked into this. She is a moderator here at Xnations and she also happens to be a VERY smart woman! I just hope all this will be resolved quickly! I'm going to do what I said from the beginning and stay out of it! However I can't ban or ask anyone to stop posting...No one has complained to me about this thread...I'm sorry if people don't agree with my decision!

Good luck guys! :(

[cdsmith]

Originally posted by Funbrunette
To be honest with you CD, I've tried to stay away from this one on purpose. I've made it my mission not to talk about it with anyone! I don't really know the story and quite frankly I haven't even really read the post I skimmed through it only because it's my responsibility as a moderator and owner of the board. Seems a lot of people are getting hurt and as much as I can be a bitch I don't like that! If I had one opinion it would be that Jennifer is her own person and should not be sucked into this. She is a moderator here at Xnations and she also happens to be a VERY smart woman! I just hope all this will be resolved quickly! I'm going to do what I said from the beginning and stay out of it! However I can't ban or ask anyone to stop posting...No one has complained to me about this thread...I'm sorry if people don't agree with my decision!

Good luck guys! :( As I said, I will not mention Jennifer or her board nick in any further posts. The few already made cannot be changed.

And I understand your position, although I know you would feel much differently if it were you or one of your good friends that was ripped off, especially if it happened at a time in your life when money was a serious issue. I understand your position, but unfortunately in this case I don't agree with it. Theft in our community is either wrong or it isn't.

[Funbrunette]

Originally posted by cdsmith
As I said, I will not mention Jennifer or her board nick in any further posts. The few already made cannot be changed.

And I understand your position, although I know you would feel much differently if it were you or one of your good friends that was ripped off, especially if it happened at a time in your life when money was a serious issue. I understand your position, but unfortunately in this case I don't agree with it. Theft in our community is either wrong or it isn't.

CD, It's my job as a moderator to be impartial besides do you really think this is going to change anything? I don't want to get involved period. I agree, Theft in our community is wrong, but so is shaving, plagiarism, child porn and yet it's there! As I've said previously I've only skimmed the threads (on this subject) on Xnations. How could I make an educated comment? I don't really know what the story is. That's all I've got to say on this! If this makes me the most hated person then so be it...

[monaro]

Please go post on another boards. I left other boards because of this sort of thing and I have joined xnations becuase people here do not carry on like with posts like you are flooding myself with. I read all that was posted on here and the other boards before I posted this here today. So save yourself the time and effort before you get flame spanked off this board.

[Feynman]

EvilChris, FunB, Panky and other owners and mods of X-Nations

I think that the case was made by CDSmith and his cohort. If true, they should settle this in court, or in arbitration, where each could substantiate their claims and have the judge or an arbitrator decide.

On a board, NO ONE or NO BODY can arbitrate the conflict. It is NOT the place to take the conflict. It will lead to NO resolution. It is efficient to mention a conflict, to present the allegations of facts once on a board, but NOT to argue it over and over.

The plaintiffs backed themselves up in an intenable position: if for some reason Paul was genuinely not able to pay back, then, there is no true reparation they can do to the dammage done to Paul's reputation.

The board's readers are NOT arbitrator, notwithstanding what the plaintiff would like to believe (I stated why in my previous post: Paul has many satisfied customers who base their judgment and opinion on Paul's ability to deliver a good product).

If I were a mod, I would leave one post by each claimant where they presented their claims, allow one reply of the defendent for each of the claimant, delete the rest of the posts, close the thread and ban anyone or anybody attempting to re-open the subject.

my 2¢.

[bhutocracy]

Originally posted by monaro
Please go post on another boards. I left other boards because of this sort of thing and I have joined xnations becuase people here do not carry on like with posts like you are flooding myself with. I read all that was posted on here and the other boards before I posted this here today. So save yourself the time and effort before you get flame spanked off this board.

This is a great thread to strike off people to do business with should the opportunity ever arise, It's ONE thread mate.. get over it. No one's forcing you to read it. I'm over this myself.. so basically you're saying Xnation is a board of apologists? you can be a criminal and get away with it here because people don't care when others get ripped off? Jeez no wonder i didn't find this place sooner. Me and another person that got scammed live about 90 minutes south of you (a big factor in our getting done was probably that we were overseas here) Not that it's an enticing proposition we can meet for coffee and you can see for yourself how fake or annoying this "drama" is. Drama for drama's sake is a bad thing. This isn't fun.. I don't want to be here.. but i've been dragged into it.. I run programs now.. it's frankly embarrassing to have everything dragged up over unpaid design work. I just wish Paul would reply to me and sort this out.. it would literally take 5 seconds... I DON'T want the money owed to me... he knows that.

[chodadog]

Originally posted by Feynman
The plaintiffs backed themselves up in an intenable position: if for some reason Paul was genuinely not able to pay back, then, there is no true reparation they can do to the dammage done to Paul's reputation.

He damaged his own reputation by stealing. This wasn't a case of someone giving him a loan and not being able to pay it back 'cause he fell on hard times. He was paid money. He should have given the designers their cut right then. He shouldn't have spent any more than the half that was rightufully his. That's theft.

[cdsmith]

Originally posted by Funbrunette
CD, It's my job as a moderator to be impartial besides do you really think this is going to change anything? I don't want to get involved period. I agree, Theft in our community is wrong, but so is shaving, plagiarism, child porn and yet it's there! As I've said previously I've only skimmed the threads (on this subject) on Xnations. How could I make an educated comment? I don't really know what the story is. That's all I've got to say on this! If this makes me the most hated person then so be it... As I said, I understand your position. I will say it again..... I understand your position.

Do I really think this is going to change anything?? Jeez FB, by that thinking then nothing is worth standing up for.

I believe some good can come out of this, yes. For one thing, it may make Paul less apt to pocket someone's money in future. It may alert several designers to avoid working for Paul. It may send a message to some people that they better watch how they do business because if they rip people off there could be consequences.


As for not knowing what the story is... the designers presented much of their facts on that GFY thread. Right in that thread alone Paul was caught in several lies. It's all right there for anyone to read.

Lastly, no one is hating on you. I hope you aren't taking my replies to you in the wrong context, I'm not mad at anyone, I'm not ranting loudly at anyone, I have been perfectly lucid, calm and factual throughout this process. But you have stated your opinion, and I am certainly then going to state what I think. No hate involved, you should know that already.

To anyone reading this far..... don't hate Funbrunette, don't hate Panky.... don't hate anyone for that matter. This isn't hate-motivated, it isn't about spreading lies, it is about righting an injustice and hopefully preventing some new ones.

[cdsmith]

Originally posted by bhutocracy
This is a great thread to strike off people to do business with should the opportunity ever arise, It's ONE thread mate.. get over it. No one's forcing you to read it. I'm over this myself.. so basically you're saying Xnation is a board of apologists? you can be a criminal and get away with it here because people don't care when others get ripped off? Jeez no wonder i didn't find this place sooner. Me and another person that got scammed live about 90 minutes south of you (a big factor in our getting done was probably that we were overseas here) Not that it's an enticing proposition we can meet for coffee and you can see for yourself how fake or annoying this "drama" is. Drama for drama's sake is a bad thing. This isn't fun.. I don't want to be here.. but i've been dragged into it.. I run programs now.. it's frankly embarrassing to have everything dragged up over unpaid design work. I just wish Paul would reply to me and sort this out.. it would literally take 5 seconds... I DON'T want the money owed to me... he knows that. Couldn't have said it better myself. I have nothing to add in reply to monaro except to underline what Bhuto said.

[Feynman]

Originally posted by chodadog
He damaged his own reputation by stealing. This wasn't a case of someone giving him a loan and not being able to pay it back 'cause he fell on hard times. He was paid money. He should have given the designers their cut right then. He shouldn't have spent any more than the half that was rightufully his. That's theft.

If your allegations are right, IF, then, I agree. But stories rarely have only one side. It takes two to tango.

BTW, who are directly involved in this thing ? Are you Chadog? Does he owes YOU money ? Does he owes money to CDSmith ?

Which one of you are white knights attempting to defend a damzel in distress ?

By canadian law, if, a third person, enter an agreement, say you claim that you'll collect on a conflict between two parties, the defendant has NO obligation to talk to you because he does NOT have any contract with you. I think it's the case of CDSmith. In that case, it is the third party that is becomes liable for the debt. Read the law... :D

Anyway, as I mentionned above, this is not the place to take this conflict. It is right to expose each side of the conflict, but not to expect people to be police, judge, jury and God.

I said what I considered acceptable and non-acceptable in my above post. All third parties comments should be removed.

[cdsmith]

Feynman, my sources who are in-the-know tell me that you are Hungryman's current roommate. Is that true? You are obviously his close friend for the moment, which makes your opinion biased from the get-go.

Is my opinion bias?

The answer is actually...no. How can this be you ask? Well, I started out liking Paul as much as anyone. Even after I outted him last year for this very same issue, once he contacted me and became cooperative I began to help him, and during our call and over the past year we got along just fine. I have ICQ logs saved that prove that I made efforts to help him to get back on track with his tgp. He agreed at that time to pay back Rikki Lee.

Let me say that again so you understand what it is I'm saying here......

Paul AGREED to pay back the debt he owes to Rikki Lee. He admitted that he had done wrong and several of his messages to me and comments during our phone call showed that he was very remorseful. Tell me, why would he feel that way and say those things if he was as innocent as he would have us believe now?

Now, a year later, he is denying responsibilty of that debt. Feynman, you can stop calling this a "story" right here and now, because the allegations are couched in fact, not fiction.

And you can stop talking as if you are anything close to being a lawyer Feynman. You're not. You are attempting to cloud the issue. Assuming you are truly Paul's friend I will tell you that the worst... the WORST thing for you to do here is to encourage him to hold out until a lawsuit is launched against him. That is the last thing I want to do here. It would be so much better for Paul in the long run both financially and otherwise, to just admit to his mistakes and pay his debt. It would be far cheaper for him than having to hire a lawyer, and our community at large would then be in a position to forgive him and move on.

Once the evidence I am compiling is in front of his host and ISP, they will very likely shut his online business down. Again, this is not what I want to do, but it IS going to happen unless Paul smartens up and does what is right. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is. If you don't like it, then why not be a real friend to Paul and help him see the error of his ways, instead of playing mister lawyer?

[chodadog]

Originally posted by Feynman
If your allegations are right, IF, then, I agree. But stories rarely have only one side. It takes two to tango.

BTW, who are directly involved in this thing ? Are you Chadog? Does he owes YOU money ? Does he owes money to CDSmith ?

Which one of you are white knights attempting to defend a damzel in distress ?

By canadian law, if, a third person, enter an agreement, say you claim that you'll collect on a conflict between two parties, the defendant has NO obligation to talk to you because he does NOT have any contract with you. I think it's the case of CDSmith. In that case, it is the third party that is becomes liable for the debt. Read the law... :D

Anyway, as I mentionned above, this is not the place to take this conflict. It is right to expose each side of the conflict, but not to expect people to be police, judge, jury and God.

I said what I considered acceptable and non-acceptable in my above post. All third parties comments should be removed.

Believe me, the allegations are true. I know you're probably more inclined to believe Hungryman, because he is your friend. But lying and thievery are characteristics that are not limited to business. Is he really your roommate? Don't leave your wallet laying around, is all i'm saying.

No, i'm not directly involved in this. A friend of mine was one of the designers who was ripped off.

My personal opinion on this situation is that the money will never be paid. I don't think he'll ever make good. He simply doesn't have the common decency to square his debts. I may be wrong, but until he proves otherwise, i hope as many potential clients and designers find out about this as possible.

I'm aware that bringing something like this to the boards is not going to get the money paid back. I think CD is a little more optimistic than i am in that regard. For me, it's just about getting the truth out there and letting everyone know what a scumbag he is, so that nobody ever does business with him again.

Basically, until he pays the money back, his reputation is going to be dragged through the mud indefinitely. I'm not going to sit here and keep the threads bumped across all the various boards, but when i do see someone recommending his services, or him showing off "his" portfolio ot pick up some new clients, i'll gladly point out the threads with all the details of his scamming.