Oh yeah. Just out of curiosity... If someone wants to try a mailer with our Quebec Cuties cash program... Check out the program and our site and give me a shout if you want to talk deal. We don't pay 40 dollars per signup but it's a new site so it seems to me that it should do pretty good. And it's entirely possible we can haggle a bit over the payout percentage. I'm really quite interested in seeing how well it would do.

Oh yeah... PSW says it has to be opt in! Hehe.

People legally sell their lists by putting a disclaimer on the page where the surfer puts their email address in that says something like

"by signing up for this service, you agree to allow us, or ANY OF OUR PARTNERS to send you email at this address, we reserve the right to sell your email to pertinant advertisers..blah blah blah"

I think this sucks - if I sign up for something - it means I want that - not something from someone you SOLD my name to!

twinkley

destroy wanadoo.fr?
 

Yes she's right on that one.

By the way:

what is

WANADOO.FR

(obviously from france)

been getting repeated "underage" spam from there OVER AND OVER:

like this -
Some later they'll know adult life.
Some later the'll see a real world with tears and dirt.

Some later they'll know a taste of sexual kisses and fill the wild passion of fall...
Now they're living in other world and fill themselves good and happy.
Pure nice and complitely beautifull creations living in those VIRGIN WORLD http://go4lolita.com/virgin/
already unaccessible for us.

But we can see them!
And we can try to be closer to their perfectanse of youth.

Free Tour & Join http://go4lolita.com/virgin/

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.2.0

U3n++OeF3uUIQ7MYi3naE3nYq77+7Yai+q+Oij+QuE77yUuQm7 Uiq+FA3U3ai+Yu
mq3EqInnEiU33UIMi37A7uA+U37B7E7Qm+BEn+IjeMFMA3Yim+ uQyuByAOa3M3Y3
7+yuA3umuyyuQMA7nujmUInBAmunFQ7nE+qE+nuiu++Y++uMy+ iQi7EqIyu+qBIq
miemaI+UEEEIAyje73unaq3iII3yjYO33uM3mjiuMmejn+iauM +F3yFuqQn7eF7M
YiiBmI+37jUuu7UAiAFneA7EQu+e7EUie3BIumun33BI7+OMA+ BqaQeie7U3+AQe
3emUIAAY7YQO+IEUQF+i+7QuaaEFyByYaIiqnqUM3EEnEnnM7Q Y7jI7U3Ye7+Aiy
FAM3yOQnnnAOOnFBEEmIMQUQOyjn73mM3aQEiejumOaeQQi+j+ M3UO+jYF+iFq7i
Qmm+I3Qm3qnF3ijjqAE7QIQI+MaIe7iuFE3Qai73AFjyiAq+Iq 3+ymFF+iI7ByQu
uqyOj37QQmiyeje7aOEnqM3Y7yuIAe73AAeQ7Y7mjEninBMY7I MBUQmnaMFaiM3i
jE+qUMAOIUmU+3+7+I+EOiQ3e3eUj3BA7uiE73+UjaAF3+qnMu E++++iyjBqOyie
QIiM+73e33yuyO7uaFe3U7AyqYEq3mOq
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here's the spoofed header (as usual):
Return-Path: <virgin31904@vworld.com>
Received: from mail.**************.com (lonwri001.virtuebroadcasting.com [212.23.58.7])
by lsh100.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA02897
for <webmaster@**************.com>; Fri, 20 Dec 2002 08:19:31 -0600
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 08:19:31 -0600
Message-Id: <200212201419.IAA02897@lsh100.siteprotect.com>
From: Gray Duglas <virgin31904@vworld.com>
To: webmaster@**************.com
Reply-to: Gray Duglas <virgin31904@vworld.com>
Subject: Some later they'll know adult life(8224)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=OMAIL_ATT_0.05005273828282958224"

Chris,

I'm going to be launching into a beta a mailer service just before the show.

Hit me up on ICQ if you want to be one of the beta testers. It requires placing the email signup code on your pages. Perhaps you can test it on your tgp pages.

You will be able to email market to the members even if they didn't signup through your page.

Re: destroy wanadoo.fr?
 

ISP, belgium and france

thank you
 

thank you for that info...




(nice sig man)

Evil Chris,

First off, great thread! Finally got a chance to read through it and some good info here.

Twinkley, VERY unfortunate situation you had to deal with when you bought that "clean" list.

My 2 cents and it has already been said numerous times, treat your list w/ respect and everyone is happy.

Poppy

I am definitely on side with the importance of a Double Opt in mailer. And Hallelujah to those who say they will not sell the names on their list.

I have managed a few lists in my day. The lists that were double opt in did the best by far in overall conversions and VPC (Value Per Click).

Here is a small example of real data comparing a general SPAM list and a Double opt list.

SPAM LIST - 3 million names, conversion 1:235, VPC .08 cents
Opt List - 250k names, conversion 1:78, VPC .21 cents

Both sent the same creative and on the same day. If opt lists are not better then why would I get more sign ups and clicks then a SPAM list.

Sure there are many who have made money from the SPAM names. And many who continue to today, but in the end, especially with articles like this it is apparent that the ideal is to opt the names in.

Very interesting topic and some great responses,

will have to bookmark and read some more

In my experience renting mailing lists from other companies has not been profitable for us, at least recently.

On the other hand, using an in-house mailing list to stay in touch with our users has proven VERY profitable. Every time we do a mailing several old customers that might have been lost return to the site.

The addresses cost nothing since we collect them on our signup page (it is optional). Each mailing includes an unsubscribe option that actually works, plus we never sell or share the addresses.

If you take the time to build and care for your own mailing list, you may find that it is an excellent tool for retaining members.

B

Some pretty interesting points of view here...
What happens however, when you have an airtight list and suddenly from one mailing you get half a dozen complaints?

Hey can anyone recommend a good application that will remove unwanted email addresses from lists?

Good Thread!

Evil Chris -

Have you tried using eList Pro?

It works great, right from your desktop. This way you are sure to have a copy of your removes list. Never leave it on the server in case of a crash. I copy mine to my harddrive daily:-)

eList Pro... hmm nope I haven't heard of that one... where can I get a copy?

I strongly suggest everyone to collect their own email addresses, it will always be better in the long run, and significantly cheaper overall. I've never found rented lists profitable...except when I'm the one renting out =)

Newsletters and the like though to people who you know for certain want them can be a major boost to any program.

I just did some research on eList Pro and that is what came out:

http://www.marketmenow.com/all_pages...roinfopage.htm

Is that it Sharky?

Well, I hate spam also. There are a few things I subscribed to and I'm glad to have subscribed.... I also love Twinkley's weekly "spam" about her show... without her reminding me I would always forget about it...

However, I live in Switzerland and I don't give a fuck about mortage payments in the US oder whatever... some of that stuff is even sent to one of my .ch email addy.... and when I get the same spam email triple I just wonder don't they notice they have my email address more than once in their system???

Yep! that's it. and it's well worth the $$

:-)

It would appear that this problem is not going away.
Check out this article in the recent YNOT News...
http://www.ynotmasters.com/news/ynew...303/page7.html

Like I have said, I think that mass porn mailings are going to practically disappear. Too many problems to deal with....
I know for a fact that a lot of the people that *used* to mass mail on a daily basis have not only stopped, but are packing up and selling all of their lists to the highest bidder. (and the bids ain't as high as you might think)

Chris -

Those you know must not be making enough $$ for it to be worthwhile to ADAPT!

Asnwith any industry,.... you need to adapt with the changes. Often each adaption means more $$ out of your pocket, if you have it.. you will be forced to adapt or get out. If you don't.. you obviously try to sell what you can and get out!

:-)

Sharky, of course you're RIGHT!
Nothing ventured (or invested) means nothing gained.

Adapting, in the case of doing mailers, means more work for much less profit. Whereby once, your massive email lists were making it to the desktop of 95% of your destinations, now only 30% get it, and the CTR is lower than it's ever been for email marketing.

So what do most people do? They give up the game. They sell their lists and hype up to potential buyers how much money they can make, but in truth, it's how much they could have made if they had their hands on these lists etc.. 2 or 3 years ago.

You seem to be misinformed or have some really crappy software. My numbers don't look anywhere near that bad.

While I agree with you that lists make less compared to what they would have 3 years ago, so do free sites!!

But then again.. tooo many people are realizing you can amke some $$ in amil.. so STOP! It's not worth it!

How did it come to mean bulk messages? The genesis of this meaning can be found in a Monty Python's Flying Circus sketch in which a customer in a restaurant asks what's on the menu. The waitress tells him, "Well, there's egg and bacon; egg, sausage, and bacon; egg and spam; egg, bacon, and spam; egg, bacon, sausage, spam; spam, bacon, sausage, and spam; spam, egg, spam, spam, bacon, and spam; spam, sausage, spam, spam, spam, bacon, spam, tomato, and spam; spam, spam, spam, egg, and spam" (and so on). Then a chorus of Vikings begins chanting "Spam, spam, spam, spam; lovely spam, wonderful spam." The first Internet use of the word originated in Internet chat rooms and on multiplayer Internet adventure games called MUDs (multiuser dungeons). According to Jennifer Smith, author of the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) list for the rec.games.mud newsgroup hierarchy, a few delinquents would "say" the same message again and again in a chat room, filling the screen in the process, and other people would call these messages "spam." It was just like the song in the Monty Python skit--senseless repetition. From flooding someone's screen with repeated words to flooding someone's mailbox or a newsgroup with repeated messages seemed to be a natural extension of the concept."

Chris,

We actually track down a fair amount of our copyright infringement (content theft) through spam. Its amazing to see your content arrive in your inbox and refer back to the host site when you know they didn't buy it from you.

Our content licenses also have a no spam clause in them....so if the content was legit previously it might no longer be. ;)